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Thread: Yea, so about that school shooting

  1. #81
    Consul Kurtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Evil View Post
    And you just proved my point! The way the US sets up the criminal system doesn't serve anyone, so making new gun laws isn't going to work. What has to be done is to change the VIEW of the country, not the laws. They can write anything they want on law books and it isn't going to change much. What we have to change is the view of the people.

    It isn't about locking up rule breakers, it's about helping the people that need help so they don't feel the need to hurt other people.

    If someone breaks into your house, they want money or things they can sell for money. If they weren't poor or a looking for drug money, they wouldn't be breaking in. Fix our economy and fix the things that make people crack addicts and this problem will fix itself. Adding another law in a book that "criminals" don't give a **** about anyways doesn't fix the problem- it just gives our already ****** up judicial system something more to charge people with.




    And you want to focus on the symptoms not the cause.
    Why not treat both? The greatest military minds in history have usually been defeated by attacks on 2 (or more) fronts. Treating the symptoms and the cause seems to me to be complete and utter common sense, especially in a social problem like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobinLocks View Post
    I believe that's what I stated, no? It's not about protecting the records (although hey, if you've got some good vinyl...), it's about protecting yourself. Even the 12 year old in the article got that, why can't you?
    I'm not going to go into the amount of times that you, never mind anyone else, has completely misread my posts in this thread and started going on about for example banning guns. Suffice it to say that we're both guilty of this. At least as of the post you just quoted.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobinLocks View Post
    Did you miss the rest of my post, or did you realize that when you said officers should come into our homes and do random sweeps to see if our guns were in order, that you came off a bit Kim Jung Kurtz?
    Where the frigging hell did you get that from?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobinLocks View Post
    Also, stupidity is not bound by nation borders. Of this, I assure you.
    I know. Oh trust me, I know. The fact that you don't see that I say that pretty much daily on these forums goes to show how egocentric you are though.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    I'm not going to go into the amount of times that you, never mind anyone else, has completely misread my posts in this thread and started going on about for example banning guns. Suffice it to say that we're both guilty of this. At least as of the post you just quoted.
    Yes, everyone is misreading your posts! That is the problem! This reminds me of someone else on the forums who always cries a misread. The name escapes me now. What you quoted did not once mention banning guns, did it? It directly addressed what it was you brought up - guns for protection. You argued property, I said life.

    Where the frigging hell did you get that from?
    Probably right here:
    Quote Originally Posted by frigging hell View Post
    Now you can be silly and argue that enforcing it will be impossible, but you know what? Who cares? Stick a big enough fine on it and if the cops come into your place and they see unsecured firearms... slowly it will teach people that locking them away is not as much of a hassle as finding e.g. $5k for the fine.
    I know. Oh trust me, I know. The fact that you don't see that I say that pretty much daily on these forums goes to show how egocentric you are though.
    I am egocentric because I don't religiously remember what you may or may not have posted on the forums sometime? I am egocentric? I'm not the one claiming you to be someone who is concerned with merely yourself and not the whole of society because you choose not to keep my posts branded within your memory. That would make me the kind of person that overvalues my posts, and undervalues your time and memory.


  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    Why not treat both? The greatest military minds in history have usually been defeated by attacks on 2 (or more) fronts. Treating the symptoms and the cause seems to me to be complete and utter common sense, especially in a social problem like this.
    Maybe, but I don't see how passing another law is going to do anything except piss off already pissed off people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz
    Where the frigging hell did you get that from?
    I agree with you here. You said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    Now you can be silly and argue that enforcing it will be impossible, but you know what? Who cares? Stick a big enough fine on it and if the cops come into your place and they see unsecured firearms... slowly it will teach people that locking them away is not as much of a hassle as finding e.g. $5k for the fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by RobinLocks View Post
    Did you miss the rest of my post, or did you realize that when you said officers should come into our homes and do random sweeps to see if our guns were in order, that you came off a bit Kim Jung Kurtz?
    That's not what he said. He said "if the cops come." He in no way mentioned a violation of the fourth amendment. It seems to me he was merely saying that if they do have any cause to come in legally and see unsecured guns. My brain doesn't connect his words to your interpretation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
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    So it was written and so it must forever be

  4. #84

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    So the government shall implement a law stating guns must be secured, then said government will not order mandatory searches to make sure the law is being upheld. Instead, if the friendly neighborhood police man sees a need to visit your house (smell a little weed, hear a gun shot, what have you), and sees said guns unsecured...then a fine will be given?

    How can you implement a law like that without doing mandatory check-ups? Do you just trust that the citizens will uphold it? Then, if you do decide these searches are in order, how do you do so without violating the 4th Amendment? It just sounds like someone created a circuit, with battery and all, yet forgot to attach the light-bulb.


  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinLocks View Post
    So the government shall implement a law stating guns must be secured, then said government will not order mandatory searches to make sure the law is being upheld. Instead, if the friendly neighborhood police man sees a need to visit your house (smell a little weed, hear a gun shot, what have you), and sees said guns unsecured...then a fine will be given?

    How can you implement a law like that without doing mandatory check-ups? Do you just trust that the citizens will uphold it? Then, if you do decide these searches are in order, how do you do so without violating the 4th Amendment? It just sounds like someone created a circuit, with battery and all, yet forgot to attach the light-bulb.
    Welcome to the forums where people throw out idealistic ideas and only the dumb or really bored really spend the time trying to connect all the dots.

    But seriously, what changes could the US actually make that would help this situation besides stricter gun control. While more gun control sounds good in theory, it's application would be horrible and would not produce the desired results.

    What changes could we actually make? Like for example, the neighbors of that kid noticed he was a little off. It was known he had some issues, was a loner, ect. Maybe the answer is just as simple as kindness and love. If someone had taken the time to get know the kid, give him someone to talk to, became his friend, maybe he wouldn't have bottled up years of whatever he was feeling and snapped. IDK

    At what point do we take noticing something is wrong and switch over to doing something about it?

    I saw something the other day that went kinda like this: A mom was driving her son to school and they went past a long line of people waiting at a soup kitchen. The mom shakes her head and says "why doesn't god do something to help these people?" and the kid looks at her and said "why don't you?"

    At what point do we realize that the old "mind your own business, keep to yourself, let the authorities handle it" has never worked?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
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    So it was written and so it must forever be

  6. #86
    Philosopher Nichts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    We were founded on the idea that at any time our government stops working for us, we have the right to revolt and take it back.

    For the people, by the people.
    Your government works for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobinLocks View Post
    Cool quote: "Democracy is two Dems and a Republican during a vote on legalizing gay marriage. Liberty is one well armed Republican contesting the vote."
    Anyone disagree?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    If anyone doesn't like it, **** off to Norway or Iran.
    Actually, I think the pro-gun crowd would find Somalia quite comfortable. The gun is the rule of law there.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Evil View Post
    At what point do we realize that the old "mind your own business, keep to yourself, let the authorities handle it" has never worked?
    I don't know whether it's people genuinely believing their government will solve the crisis, or just not giving enough a damn to do something, and using 'let the authorities handle it' as a scapegoat to excuse themselves of responsibility. An interesting idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichts View Post
    Anyone disagree?
    I was wondering why the quote suddenly sounded bigoted, then I realized you slipped on that slope and biased all over it.

    I support two peoples right to marriage, despite sexual orientation. I support a persons right to arms, should they be up to the standards required in gun ownership. These two do not need to be put on opposing ends. Why do you choose to make it an either-or? It makes me question your comprehension.

    Now, because it was you who brought up gay marriage, let me familiarize everyone with your views on the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichts View Post
    I want you to think about your question. I don't support gay marriage - and you're asking me if I'd be ok with things I consider equally as morally reprehensible?
    Given your beliefs, who are you in your analogy? The man behind the gun owner rubbing his shoulders, and whispering in his ear? I'm actually quite curious now as to whether you would want the armed man to shoot or not. Which do you appose more Nichts, guns or gays?
    Last edited by RobinLocks; 12-18-2012 at 04:03 PM.


  8. #88

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    A gun control bill will pass next year evidenced by a 18% jump in support for such a law since March this year (and that before 20 little kids got murdered) and Senators from both sides of the isle (even Republicans with A-grade from NRA) are calling for it.

    The pro gun lobby should join in the debate and help craft the ban so it doesn't go too far. But they probably won't join in and be left crying on the sidelines.

    BTW, I recently bought a handgun and enjoy shooting at the range. Still support the ban on semi-automatic weapons.

    But that won't end these type of events alone. We also need to address mental health issue (but but socialism!!!), end the war on drugs which in part puts a lot of guns on the street, educate everyone on the sage use of guns and how to protect them. But most importantly we need to play a more active role in our communities and respond to the early warning signs that are present in the majority of these cases.
    Last edited by Snoopy1721; 12-18-2012 at 03:42 PM.
    Bibo ergo sum

  9. #89
    Consul Sirveri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy1721 View Post
    A gun control bill will pass next year evidenced by a 18% jump in support for such a law since March this year (and that before 20 little kids got murdered) and Senators from both sides of the isle (even Republicans with A-grade from NRA) are calling for it.

    The pro gun lobby should join in the debate and help craft the ban so it doesn't go too far. But they probably won't join in and be left crying on the sidelines.
    Maybe, but it will be an incredibly stupid bill that bans worthless garbage that has NOTHING to do with school shootings like bayonet lugs and pistol grips on rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
    There is some serious misquoting potential above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinLocks View Post
    Yes, everyone is misreading your posts! That is the problem! This reminds me of someone else on the forums who always cries a misread. The name escapes me now.
    Seriously, this. I'm not sure what's up with Kurtz's posting style lately but I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing it.

    It's why I've been calling him Kluisss.

  11. #91

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    Adding or taking away guns is really only treating the symptoms, not the disease. If we actually want to make a difference in preventing tragedies like this in the future, we need more research and better programs designed to identify people who are at risk for this sort of thing before they go off the deep end. That way they can get the treatment they need, and if necessary be isolated from society.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otter View Post
    Adding or taking away guns is really only treating the symptoms, not the disease. If we actually want to make a difference in preventing tragedies like this in the future, we need more research and better programs designed to identify people who are at risk for this sort of thing before they go off the deep end. That way they can get the treatment they need, and if necessary be isolated from society.
    Why not treat the symptoms while we sort out the cure?
    "Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit."

  13. #93
    Philosopher MokMonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    Oh ye gods. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change things for the better. Basically what you're saying is that we should leave the vodka bottle in the child's bed because having it in the spirits cupboard under lock and key isn't 100% secure. Do you even think about what you write?
    Do you even think? The average gun owner doesn't just leave his **** all over the place!
    Guns leaning in the corner? Ammo scattered across the table? Is that what you picture?
    Maybe a few lines of coke on a broken mirror on the table? A few half-naked, drugged-out women with children suckling at the teat?
    Stop watching the drug movies and get a grip. Hollywood very rarely represents the US culture with any accuracy -- not the majority, anyway.

    You yanks are obviously not going to learn how to read. So I'm not going to go into this further. Please read my previous posts. I've already covered this SEVERAL times. I refuse to repeat myself again.
    Hmm... multiple people are confused.
    8 on one side, 1 on the other.
    Yup, must be the 8 who are all getting it wrong the same way.

    I love how you bring **** into this. Guess what Mok. The person breaking into your house is highly likely to just want the money.
    Yeah? How do I know that?
    Never heard of a crime of convenience?

    They know (and trust me criminals know better than you or I) what sentence they'll get if caught.
    You have no understanding of the criminal culture if you really think this. They only know what sentence they've (or a friend) has already gotten for the same crime. They don't know the rest of the statutes. And considering the uneven way things are prosecuted here, no one knows how much actual time a person would get if they got caught on a B&E.


    If someone is on their 3rd strike before being given life, they might not see it quite like that. But that's another argument really.
    No, it isn't.
    As a parent with a young child, how do I distinguish between the B&E sound of a criminal who knows the statutes for various crimes and is only there for my TV, and the B&E sound of a pedophile on his 3rd strike?


    What? You lost me there. I have zero clue what you're on about here. Unless you're trying to argue my case.
    Yeah... the big break in the text with the ------- should have been a clue I was on a different subject.
    The fact that I started the new text by talking about a whole different issue should have been a 2nd clue.

    What does make sense is that guns make it easy for people to kill one another and so they do. Which is partly why you yanks have the highest per capita murder rate in the western world.
    This hasn't really been disputed.
    What is disputed is your "solution" and its effectiveness. I give an effective gun ban about a 0.001% chance of making it through Congress and another
    0.001% chance of making it past the Supreme Court. Once in place, I give that about a 1% chance of actually changing the culture enough to make any difference at all, especially in cases like a school shooting.

    My grandfather had like 20 different firearms, including a Luger he stole from a dead German officer. Restricting number of firearms (which we do here in Norway) is a joke in my eyes. All it takes is 1 damn gun to start shooting. Perhaps 2 or 3 if you're on an American style rampage though. Either way, 3 would most likely be below the limit.
    Actually, limiting the # would be effective in finding people who are starting a collection. Limiting ammo buys would also be helpful. Most of the shootings of this nature involve people with a large number of guns and an excessive amount of ammo. At the least, it would flag the person as potentially dangerous.
    MokMonster does not support, condone or agree with anything written in this post.
    Any suggestions to the contrary are purely unintentional.
    (Unless you agreed with it -- then I totally said it)

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    Why not treat the symptoms while we sort out the cure?
    I am all for that, as long as we can answer an honest "no" to the question that any treatment brings up, i.e. "do the side effects outweigh the benefit". And, where gun control is concerned obviously the answer will vary widely depending on whom you ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    Why not treat the symptoms while we sort out the cure?
    Isn't that an argument for marijuana?
    Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit.

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    Not for nothing, but one box of bullets contains something like 100 rounds. Unless we were to suggest that a recycling program be installed, one in which a gun owner would have to return spent cartridges before getting new ones, limiting ammo to any effective number would never work even a little bit.
    Roses are red; violets are blue. I shagged your girl; maybe tomorrow you can to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Isn't that an argument for marijuana?
    He's already argued against his pro-life stance and is now arguing to legalize marijuana.

    This is why you can't take his arguments seriously. He cherry picks and denies those cherries when it's convenient to him.

  18. #98
    Consul Luisss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Isn't that an argument for marijuana?
    It is, however the side effects outweigh the benefits in that instance. Hence my disagreement with it, as I would be if it were the case in this instance. .
    "Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit."

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    It is, however the side effects outweigh the benefits in that instance.
    Nice to see you being inconsistent, as usual.

    So you're pro-abortion, pro-marijuana usage, and anti-gun-rights according to the logic that you apply to all three of these issues. Do you just look up "stuff guilty white people believe in" and then just run with whatever the first result is, or do you still pretend to be a free-thinking Mexican that hasn't been tamed by Caucasian secularist Modernism?
    Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit.

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    [7:32 AM] Old Timer US1: The same faction that loses one to 66 legos

  20. #100
    Consul Sirveri's Avatar
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    Box sizes are 20, 50, 100, 500 and 1000.

    20 is typical for specialty rounds, 50 for FMJ, and 1000 for bulk orders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
    There is some serious misquoting potential above.
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  21. #101
    Consul Luisss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Nice to see you being inconsistent, as usual.

    So you're pro-abortion, pro-marijuana usage, and anti-gun-rights according to the logic that you apply to all three of these issues. Do you just look up "stuff guilty white people believe in" and then just run with whatever the first result is, or do you still pretend to be a free-thinking Mexican that hasn't been tamed by Caucasian secularist Modernism?
    There's nothing inconsistent about being anti-abortion, pro-gun control, and anti-marijuana.

    I don't think marijuana should be legal because the side effects to society outweigh the benefits. I don't believe abortion should be allowed because the fetus is simply an under developed human being deprived of it's right to life. I am pro-gun control because of a reason similar to why I am against marijuana.

    To hold one logic to every argument is stupid, as people have different reasons for different things. That's not inconsistency.
    "Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit."

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    Oh Dear Lord, Luisss has gone and broke stupid.

  23. #103
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    Please, explain.

    Your reason for arguing one thing will seldom be your reason for arguing something else. That does not mean you are being inconsistent. Inconsistency is when you have two positions that contradict each other, which I do not.
    "Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit."

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    Luisss, you're using something to affirm one position and then denying that same something when it affirms a position on another idea you disagree with.

    It's as if you said blue is the best color because your father said so and then say pizza is not the best food even though your father said so. I know that's a rather simplistic version of it but I feel you can build from there up to see my point.

    If your father's opinion is not valid each time, you're inconsistent in your view on your father's opinion. Otherwise you need to qualify it in each category and when you do that, you're cherry-picking. You know what book I think you do that with, so I leave it at that.

  25. #105
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    So you're saying the standard of "side effects outweigh the benefits" is being applied inconsistently?

    Because I believe the side effects of marijuana outweigh its benefits, as I do with more lenient gun control. Thus, I am pro-gun control. Perhaps I was unclear in my position?
    "Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit."

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    I have to go out drinking now.

    Perhaps someone else will pick this up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    I have to go out drinking now.

    Perhaps someone else will pick this up.
    sigh... fine

    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    So you're saying the standard of "side effects outweigh the benefits" is being applied inconsistently?

    Because I believe the side effects of marijuana outweigh its benefits, as I do with more lenient gun control. Thus, I am pro-gun control. Perhaps I was unclear in my position?
    No, because you're deliberately skewing information differently, you're basically having cognitive dissonance.

    "Why not treat the symptoms while we sort out the cure?
    Isn't that an argument for marijuana?"

    You dismissed the identical argument in favor of marijuana legalization as a support for health benefits by claiming that since it didn't actually cure anything it wasn't an actual benefit. Yet here you say that even though it doesn't cure anything it is a benefit. It's cognitive dissonance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
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  28. #108

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    Oh save me, save me from the guns! Take away everyone's guns so I can feel safe!

    You have a significantly higher chance of being struck by lightning than you do of ever being shot by a gun. You pathetic ***** see some horrible tragedy getting heavily exploited by a sociopathic media and you just about eat every damn piece of fear mongering BS you are fed.

    Screw gun control, we need media access control... some of you pathetic fools are not mentally equipped to even watch the news.

    Stop giving your time and support to news agencies who obsess over these things, stop helping to give these sick ***** any celebrity status or limelight whatsoever.

    But you can't stop and you won't stop; you want it like you need it. And until you stop silently demanding these things happen, because that's what your undying support to the sick and twisted media is actually consenting to (them bringing total coverage of depravity straight to the comfort of your cozy living room), these things will continue to happen again and again.

    Be conscious of your choices.
    Excuse me for disagreeing that your degeneracy is sacred.

  29. #109
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    I'm 100% sure I never said marijuana shouldn't be legalized because it doesn't cure anything.

    As I mentioned just a post or two ago, I believe marijuana should stay illegal because of the side effect it would have on society outweighing its potential benefits. That is not inconsistent with my position that we should work on gun control until we can fix the societal problems we currently have.
    Last edited by Luisss; 12-18-2012 at 09:52 PM.
    "Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit."

  30. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    There's nothing inconsistent about being anti-abortion, pro-gun control, and anti-marijuana.

    I don't think marijuana should be legal because the side effects to society outweigh the benefits. I don't believe abortion should be allowed because the fetus is simply an under developed human being deprived of it's right to life. I am pro-gun control because of a reason similar to why I am against marijuana.

    To hold one logic to every argument is stupid, as people have different reasons for different things. That's not inconsistency.
    What benefits do alcohol give to society (with the assumption you condone the Devil's nectar)?

    Or tobacco?
    Last edited by Sapient; 12-18-2012 at 09:56 PM.
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    I'm not very bright.

  31. #111
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    It's all a false flag operation.

  32. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    I'm 100% sure I never said marijuana shouldn't be legalized because it doesn't cure anything.

    As I mentioned just a post or two ago, I believe marijuana should stay illegal because of the side effect it would have on society outweighing its potential benefits. That is not inconsistent with my position that we should work on gun control until we can fix the societal problems we currently have.
    Pumpkin, try to follow. I don't care to find the quote right now, but I remember you saying that weed should be illegal because it doesn't cure anything.

    Nevermind, I got them...

    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    Can you show me any of those articles that shows cannabis actually curing something rather than simply limiting it's ability to spread or relieving symptoms?
    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    This is not something cannabis cures. This is one compound inside of cannabis that helps (not cures) with cancer, which is vastly different than cannabis as a whole and is likely missing what causes all of the side-effects. It stops the spreading of the more aggressive cancers, but again, does not cure it.

    ...

    Second, again, not one thing there (or the other sources they pointed out below) shows cannbis curing anything, just relieves symptoms temporarily.

    ...

    For the third time now (hence my post before this):

    This simply shows that cannabis can slow down the growth of cancer - it doesn't prevent cancer, it doesn't reverse the effects of cancer, it doesn't even stop the cancer. ...
    So, now that you have been proven wrong... you are claiming that weed should be illegal because it doesn't cure anything, it only helps the symptoms. Now in the gun thread, you are saying helping the symptoms of guns is enough of a cure.

    But wait, you are going to throw in how the side effects of weed outweigh the benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    Incorrect. There are several side-effects of pot smoking (like regular smoking) that can cause harm to individuals:

    • Impaired short-term memory (memory of recent events)—making it hard to learn and retain information, particularly complex tasks.
    • Slowed reaction time and impaired motor coordination—throwing off athletic performance, impairing driving skills, and increasing the risk of injuries
    • Altered judgment and decisionmaking—possibly leading to high-risk sexual behaviors that could lead to the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.
    • Increased heart rate by 20-100%—may increase the risk of heart attack, especially in otherwise vulnerable individuals
    • Altered mood—euphoria, calmness, or in high doses, anxiety, paranoia


    Not to mention when interacting with others this can cause harm to society as a whole through the crimes committed while under the influence.
    Let's discuss the loss of short term memory... wait I forget where I was going with this.

    But seriously, slowing cancer is helping it and the side effects are minor. If you've never smoked you don't have any clue what it does to you.

    Back to guns... you support treating the symptoms without worrying about the core issue. You are a hypocrite. I mean I may be an idiot at times but at least I'm honest about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Eb0l is the alpha and the omega
    The eternal pumpkin queen, and mother of gerbils
    So it was written and so it must forever be

  33. #113

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    There are simply too many people like Jdurand walking around for humanity to wake up and make things right in the near future.

    People like you really should just live on a farm working from sunrise to sunset just so you have no energy left to interact with the rest of society, and obviously you would then have no time to impose your misguided will on others through voting and whatnot.

    You are just too easily influenced and manipulated to ever be anything more than a subversive tool to be used by others, and your feeble mind prevents you from ever being the wiser.

    It's not all your fault but you still are what you are, and that is a subtle but deadly form of cancer.
    Excuse me for disagreeing that your degeneracy is sacred.

  34. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    I'm 100% sure I never said marijuana shouldn't be legalized because it doesn't cure anything.

    As I mentioned just a post or two ago, I believe marijuana should stay illegal because of the side effect it would have on society outweighing its potential benefits. That is not inconsistent with my position that we should work on gun control until we can fix the societal problems we currently have.
    If your motivations are so altruistic and unbiased, then how about these alternate ways to benefit society as a whole?



    Tobacco causes a huge negative effect on society...so, illegal.

    Alcohol use is another, so that should be illegal.

    Car related accidents is another large one, though, to fix this is a little complicated. As it is, we have spent approximately $14.5 billion on the War on Drugs this year. That same amount of money could go to researching autonomous technologies and save over 30,000 lives a year, altruistically, i don't see how you could say no.

    The #1 most used weapon in violent crimes is a baseball bat. Since life outweighs sport (as seen in your methodology towards gun control), we need serious restrictions on baseball bat ownership, yes?

    Unintentional poisoning, we need to put serious restrictions and regulations on chemicals caps and buying (like how we do with Sudafed).

    Medical Errors, we need to invest in robotic surgical doctors (which already exist), and can cut down on doctor errors.

    And finally, unintentional injuries. I think we need to stop constructing buildings over three stories with windows that open, or access to roofs, or and cliff like access. All construction needs to be on a maximum or a 3% gradient, and all individuals need to wear protective gear. Since people shouldn't have the choice to do with their own body as they see fit. It's up to us to make sure we have their best interest in mind, amirite?

    Also, on a side note, since you're playing up the altruistic approach of having only society's well-being in mind (which i might add is the philosopy and moralistic approach of most atheists (secular humanism), where to decide if something should be legal or illegal, you weigh the effects on society, both positively and adversely. If something is neutral, it should be legal, since it doesn't harm society).

    Using your enlightened position of secular humanism on these points of interest, extend it to gay marriage, where there are no negative repercussions and many positive. You can't use moralistic approaches as they suit you. Or as better said, you can't take a preconceived stance and opinion and find the relativistic moral approach to support your bias without being a total and complete hypocrite. So if you wish to extend this moral philosophy to these issues, shouldn't you extend them to all issues, regardless of their significance in your religious dogma?

    EDIT: On a side note, cannabis has thousands of notable industrial uses that are absolutely beneficial to society like strengthening concrete (so that it withstands natural disasters and saves lives), ropes (which don't fray and snap, killing workers), textiles (which are more durable and cut down the cost of living), nutritious oils (that help give beneficial nutrients to the body), bioplastics (that are stronger than oil-based, and are good for the environment, and are renewable), biofuels (obviously good), paper (which cuts down on the harmful chemicals that are used for wood pulp paper), water filtration (cheap, efficient ways to purify and filter water and remove bio-chemical and excrement waste)...
    Last edited by Sapient; 12-18-2012 at 10:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  35. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erbal View Post
    There are simply too many people like Jdurand walking around for humanity to wake up and make things right in the near future.

    People like you really should just live on a farm working from sunrise to sunset just so you have no energy left to interact with the rest of society, and obviously you would then have no time to impose your misguided will on others through voting and whatnot.

    You are just too easily influenced and manipulated to ever be anything more than a subversive tool to be used by others, and your feeble mind prevents you from ever being the wiser.

    It's not all your fault but you still are what you are, and that is a subtle but deadly form of cancer.




    They will get there, Erbal. Give them the time they need.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Eb0l is the alpha and the omega
    The eternal pumpkin queen, and mother of gerbils
    So it was written and so it must forever be

  36. #116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Evil View Post
    They will get there, Erbal. Give them the time they need.
    I hope so too but I'm a skeptic who is getting rather impatient.
    Excuse me for disagreeing that your degeneracy is sacred.

  37. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erbal View Post
    I hope so too but I'm a skeptic who is getting rather impatient.
    Deep breaths!

    And since you are the only other one I found here that shares my love for tin foil hats...



    What's your take on the connection between Sandy Hook, the Batman shooting, and LIBOR? And yes I serious. This **** is fishier than beRRa's laundry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Eb0l is the alpha and the omega
    The eternal pumpkin queen, and mother of gerbils
    So it was written and so it must forever be

  38. #118
    Consul Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    There's nothing inconsistent about being anti-abortion, pro-gun control, and anti-marijuana.
    Right, but when you employ the exact same logic to all three of those things while holding a contrary position (i.e. this thing should be legal because of this modus ponens while this other thing should be illegal because of this exact same modus ponens which is the exact same modus ponens that advocates of making it legal use) then you're being inconsistent.
    Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit.

    [7:32 AM] Jason (Al Bundy raidslave): Who the **** loses an arti to 18 phalanx
    [7:32 AM] Old Timer US1: The same faction that loses one to 66 legos

  39. #119
    Consul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erbal View Post
    wha wha wha whaaaa wha wha wha falseflagoperation whaaaaa wha wha wha whaaaa.
    What?

  40. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    What?
    You seriously didn't understand that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erbal View Post
    There are simply too many people like Jdurand walking around for humanity to wake up and make things right in the near future.
    People blinded by the media- the official story. There are too many people out there like that and they refuse to believe the truth.

    People like you really should just live on a farm working from sunrise to sunset just so you have no energy left to interact with the rest of society, and obviously you would then have no time to impose your misguided will on others through voting and whatnot.
    Here he is raging. His feelings of anger are warranted but he is just expressing it with frustration.

    You are just too easily influenced and manipulated to ever be anything more than a subversive tool to be used by others, and your feeble mind prevents you from ever being the wiser.
    You're brain washed. You are just what the government wants. Congrats.

    It's not all your fault but you still are what you are, and that is a subtle but deadly form of cancer.
    Here he is trying to make peace with his feelings about your condition. He tells you it's not your fault but equates your mental processing to cancer.

    I understand him completely but at the same time understand that you will one day have your awakening. When that day comes, you will understand perfectly what Erbal said, how he feels when you see it in others, and you will be free. It will be a great thing. Baby steps though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Eb0l is the alpha and the omega
    The eternal pumpkin queen, and mother of gerbils
    So it was written and so it must forever be

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