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Thread: Upgrade-able Merchants

  1. #1

    Default Upgrade-able Merchants

    Pretty self explanatory. Instead of building a Trade Office, you should be able to upgrade your merchants in the Smithy. It makes much more sense than combining Smithy and Armory (**** you guys, btw, for killing ghost hammers. "oh, let's just go ahead and make gameplay even less customizable" that's a magnificent business plan if I've ever heard one ). And the description could read "reinforce merchants carts/harnesses with steel to allow them to carry more resources" or something of the like.

    Make the armory/blacksmith seperate again (no one likes this update) and replace it with the TO/Smithy combo.

    The main purpose of this thread is to support the removal of the smithy/armory combination, allowing ghost hammers to be as effective as they once were. Any thoughts on how this could be accomplished would be appreciated.
    Last edited by Gabool; 08-20-2014 at 02:12 PM.
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  2. #2
    Philosopher MokMonster's Avatar
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    Um, adding armor to your merchant carts would actually make them carry less, not more.
    You know, since the carts will be heavier and slower and harder to push/pull/move.

    And... it actually makes a lot of sense to combine the smithy and armory -- giving a legionnaire a better sword will make him a better defender and a better attacker. Same goes for a better piece of armor.

    The only reason to upgrade a merchant in the armory would be if someone were able to attack your trade caravans -- and that's a whole different can of worms to try to open up.
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by MokMonster View Post
    Um, adding armor to your merchant carts would actually make them carry less, not more.
    You know, since the carts will be heavier and slower and harder to push/pull/move.

    And... it actually makes a lot of sense to combine the smithy and armory -- giving a legionnaire a better sword will make him a better defender and a better attacker. Same goes for a better piece of armor.

    The only reason to upgrade a merchant in the armory would be if someone were able to attack your trade caravans -- and that's a whole different can of worms to try to open up.
    "reinforce merchants carts/harnesses with steel to allow them to carry more resources" Did you even read what I said? It's no more far fetched than the scout upgrades. No real fight occurs if their armor is a high enough level to not be detected-but if they're Smithy level is less they can be detected. So somehow it makes sense for scout upgrades to make them more stealthy, but increasing merchant carrying capacity is too far fetched?

    It makes no sense to combine the smithy and armory. The only troops it's even remotely applicable to are legos (if you make ***tons of legos for purposes other than raiding or personal defense, you fail anyway) and possibly haeduans (and we all know they're not the best defenders due to how expensive they are). It pretty much robbed players of an entire aspect of the game. It made playing hammers less risky. If you have a hammer, but you can't check in enough, or keep perma-reins to avoid being ghosted then you shouldn't be playing hammer in the first place.
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  4. #4

    Flossie Schmumpus's Avatar
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    I always thought that the merchies should get a speed upgrade from a TS. To me that has a more direct correlation.
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  5. #5

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    I would guess that anyone who finds ghosting to be too hard in t4 never really tried it in t3. TTs have always been weak and easily killed. You don't send a ghost expecting it to come home intact. And you certainly don't rely on owning only one ghost. I still see plenty of people building and using ghost hammers in t4. If anything, bandages and hero weapons have dramatically increased their survivability over t3.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tineren View Post
    I would guess that anyone who finds ghosting to be too hard in t4 never really tried it in t3. TTs have always been weak and easily killed. You don't send a ghost expecting it to come home intact. And you certainly don't rely on owning only one ghost. I still see plenty of people building and using ghost hammers in t4. If anything, bandages and hero weapons have dramatically increased their survivability over t3.
    I ran a few ghost accounts in 3.6. There is a pretty big difference, to me anyway. The purpose of a ghost is to kill off enemy hammers (and come out ahead in at least training time, if possible), it's just not as practical as it used to be. You don't further restrict customization when you're already losing player base.. That's just a bad plan. Then again, maybe I'm just being the 'grumpy old man'. But thank you guys for discussing, I much prefer it over just having the thread ignored or the typical 'this idea is stupid'.
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  7. #7
    Philosopher MokMonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabool View Post
    "reinforce merchants carts/harnesses with steel to allow them to carry more resources" Did you even read what I said?
    Yes, I got it. You want to make the bed of the cart stronger.
    But you still have to find something to push/pull it.
    And all the extra weight of the reinforcing steel would make it harder to pull -- thus reducing overall capacity.

    I suppose you could reduce speed and increase capacity -- but frankly, I want speed more than capacity.
    That's why Gaul merchants are >>> than Teuton merchants.

    Of course, this is a game so there's no reason they couldn't get rid of the TO and stick another option for research in the smithy or academy. The TO is good for CP, but only if you're building it to 20, so I wouldn't mind getting rid of it. It would certainly make building a town a lot easier, as you effectively gain an extra space.

    All that said, I highly doubt it'll happen.
    MokMonster does not support, condone or agree with anything written in this post.
    Any suggestions to the contrary are purely unintentional.
    (Unless you agreed with it -- then I totally said it)

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tineren View Post
    I would guess that anyone who finds ghosting to be too hard in t4 never really tried it in t3. TTs have always been weak and easily killed. You don't send a ghost expecting it to come home intact. And you certainly don't rely on owning only one ghost. I still see plenty of people building and using ghost hammers in t4. If anything, bandages and hero weapons have dramatically increased their survivability over t3.
    I played a ghost one round. Ended up having 2 (was going to be 3), but no matter how much I stayed up late, couldn't hit a damn thing...Was able to hit anywhere on the server in about 3 hours....Fun round, but a bit of a pain.
    Retired as of 10/13/14 after 7 and a half years of playing. Good luck to those who continue to play.
    us2; Round 6 - Adjudicator (Getter) (BACON) (Lost)
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  9. #9
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    The upgrade should be in the stables, or the ability to train captured elephants to pull carts.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabool View Post
    Make the armory/blacksmith seperate again (no one likes this update) and replace it with the TO/Smithy combo.
    this... is pretty stupid. all you are doing is renaming buildings. this wouldn't really change anything.

    i think what you are really asking for is to have the merchant upgrades be permanent? is that right? so that you aren't required to keep the trade office around to get the carry boost.

    the purpose of combining smithy and armory was to save a space in villages. i actually loved this idea. although when i started playing they were already merged into one building.

    having the trade office dedicated to upgrading merchants and smithy dedicated to upgrading troops allows you to specialize your villages and not have to build **** you don't need.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by il pepe View Post
    this... is pretty stupid. all you are doing is renaming buildings. this wouldn't really change anything.

    i think what you are really asking for is to have the merchant upgrades be permanent? is that right? so that you aren't required to keep the trade office around to get the carry boost.

    the purpose of combining smithy and armory was to save a space in villages. i actually loved this idea. although when i started playing they were already merged into one building.

    having the trade office dedicated to upgrading merchants and smithy dedicated to upgrading troops allows you to specialize your villages and not have to build **** you don't need.
    It would change many aspects of the game. But since you didn't even play before the smithy/armory update (not sure how you can even call my idea stupid when you weren't around), you wouldn't know how things were before it. So let me elaborate: You upgraded your offensive troops in the smithy. Defensive troops in the armory. They weren't lumped together, which means ghost hammers were a much more viable strategy, and added another dimension to the game.

    If the TO was removed, and replaced with upgrades for merchants in the smithy (merchants are troops too, donchaknow?) it would be the same amount of building slots, while still allowing ghosts to have fun instead of smashing into one decent hammer and being done.

    And (lol) if you ever find yourself building a smithy and armory in the same village, youredoingitwrong. Once again, the only troops this update even remotely helps are: legionairres, and to a much lesser extent haeduans and EC. That is of course, unless your a herp-derp that attacks with praets, or defends with clubs.

    For you people saying the combination had no real effect on ghost hammers:
    15k TT vs. a smaller club hammer without upgrades:
    http://travian.kirilloid.ru/warsim2....,3000,500,500U

    Same battle with lvl 20 upgrades:
    http://travian.kirilloid.ru/warsim2....0,,,,,20,20,20

    Losses are doubled. Against a smaller club hammer whose only real calvary defense was TK.

    But really the main point of this entire thread is to try and see ghost hammers regain their place, via removing the smithy/armory combo. How that is done is irrelevant, I was just throwing ideas around.
    Last edited by Gabool; 08-20-2014 at 02:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LordDeath View Post
    Your a sarcastic smart ***. Two things I don't like in a person.
    US4R7-Mr. Pig

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabool View Post
    For you people saying the combination had no real effect on ghost hammers:
    15k TT vs. a smaller club hammer without upgrades:
    http://travian.kirilloid.ru/warsim2....,3000,500,500U

    Same battle with lvl 20 upgrades:
    http://travian.kirilloid.ru/warsim2....0,,,,,20,20,20

    Losses are doubled. Against a smaller club hammer whose only real calvary defense was TK.

    But really the main point of this entire thread is to try and see ghost hammers regain their place, via removing the smithy/armory combo. How that is done is irrelevant, I was just throwing ideas around.
    What I actually said was
    Quote Originally Posted by Tineren View Post
    I still see plenty of people building and using ghost hammers in t4. If anything, bandages and hero weapons have dramatically increased their survivability over t3.
    If you leave those aspects out, it does make ghosting look worse, but then you are focusing on one change of many that occurred simultaneously.

    1. Hero weapons boost one troop type, so if you are attacking with one type of troops while the defender has multiple types, you get a bigger boost (in your example the best defensive weapon would be a TK sword boosting only 43% of the defenders).

    2. Bandages revive based on troop count, not wheat count. You need a lot more of them to revive a full mixed hammer than you do a cavalry only ghost (in your example the defender would need 5x as many bandages for maximum recovery).

    3. Smithy boosts are bigger for less efficient troops. You chose an example with maces who get +150% boost to cavalry defense from the smithy. While they still have a very pitiful cavalry defense of 12, it's a much bigger relative boost than most troop types that only get a 35-50% boost. So your losses do go up relatively more than they would against other troop types. Change your example to axes instead of maces and the losses only go up 50% in the T4 version (and half of that is covered by bandages).

    4. Your example shows 4 days of build time loss in T4 vs 2.5 days of build time loss in T3. Bandages would drop that down to 3 days vs 2.5 days. I really don't see an extra 12 hours of troop rebuilding as making the entire ghost strategy unviable.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabool View Post
    And (lol) if you ever find yourself building a smithy and armory in the same village, youredoingitwrong. Once again, the only troops this update even remotely helps are: legionairres, and to a much lesser extent haeduans and EC. That is of course, unless your a herp-derp that attacks with praets, or defends with clubs.
    When i built hammers, I upgraded everything in both the blacksmith and the armoury. For the very reason of ghosts and follow homes.
    Retired as of 10/13/14 after 7 and a half years of playing. Good luck to those who continue to play.
    us2; Round 6 - Adjudicator (Getter) (BACON) (Lost)
    us3; Round 2 - stevo (Getter) (QoD) (Lost)
    us3; Round 3 - stemem (Getter) (SI) (Won)
    us3; Round 4 - BliZZarD (Getter) (Delicious) (lost)
    us3; Round 5 - Ice Lillies (Getter) (DoS) (Semper DoS)
    us3; Round 7 - Revolt (Getter) (SI) (Won)
    us8; Round 1 - Heavenly Wrath (Getter) (TNT) (won)
    com3; Round ? - General Mills (Getter) (ReD DoS/TWD) (Lost)

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by ???? View Post
    When i built hammers, I upgraded everything in both the blacksmith and the armoury. For the very reason of ghosts and follow homes.
    i'm no expert when it comes to previous versions of this game, but this was my thought exactly.

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