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Thread: The Mafia Dilemma: A Game of Game Theory

  1. #1

    Default The Mafia Dilemma: A Game of Game Theory

    Alright fine some of the situations that will arise aren't strictly game theory but it's similar and makes for a great title.

    Rules (taken from Seba's game of mafia (taken from Conun's game of Mafia - thanks, Conun!))

    Deadline for roles and votes is 10 PM EDT, KP will follow. First KP will be Sunday at 10 PM.
    "No Lynch" is allowed once, abstaining from voting is not.
    If you're going to unvote, please do it correctly. As in: unvote: player name vote: player name.
    Don't be terrible on purpose
    Ties are decided by random.org
    Be as active as possible.
    Don't haunt excessively.
    No outside communication.
    OPEN COMMS (all rules still apply in comms don't let me hear you are cheating)
    Editing posts is fine, but do it at your own risk.
    No role claiming (or you get dumped in the harbor!)
    No pasting screenshots, this applies to mafia communication as well.


    Order of Events:

    Vote affecting specials
    Lynch
    Protect
    Roleblock
    Kill (everyone shoots/stabs at the same time)
    Save
    Investigate

    *all actions are noted in KP except vote additions and investigations (a bit different from recent games)

    The following is a list of the possible roles:

    Town:

    Doctor: Can save one player once

    Town Cop: Can investigate a player once

    Lawyer: Can roleblock a player once

    Twin Bodyguard: Can protect two players with their life once. As in must be done on the same night.

    Mayor: Can PM a second vote once

    *Note there can be multiple of these roles, there are no vanilla townies.

    Mafia:

    Traitor: Is not in contact with other mafia members and is given a randomly selected town identity including single use power (if killed will be listed as the randomly selected town role)

    Henchman: Typical mafia henchman *at least 2 in play

    Deep Cover Agent: A town aligned bad *** that has penetrated the mafia ranks and is in the inner circle. Acts like a normal henchman but wins when all the other mafia are dead. Role-claim and I will hate you! (when killed shows up as a regular henchman)


    Special Mafia Rules:

    (edit: by having agent show up as henchman in KP if lynched this shouldn't be an issue as remaining mafia won't know if an earlier lynched member was the mole or not when it gets down to two)
    Besides the regular mafia kill, the mafia can kill off one of their own with an assassination. This is completely separate from the regular kill and will show up in the KP, just like in a lynch role revealed in the KP will always be that it was a henchman killed. If more than two mafia are alive all the mafia except the one being assassinated must PM the host asking for the assassination. The agent cannot call in an assassination by themselves aka when its down to 2 but can try and incite discord early on to get friendly fire going.
    If the mafia successfully assassinate the Deep Cover Agent the traitor will join their ranks. Obviously there are lots of scenarios like the traitor already being dead or there being no agent or traitor so don't count on this.
    Also traitor only joins with the main cartel if the Agent is killed by assassination not by lynch.

    Assassinations are not affected by specials such as RB's Saves and Protects.

    The last kill PM'ed to me by the mafia is the kill that goes through. Regular kill can't target teammates. Mafia may PM host to find out who sent in the final kill order.

    Basically the mafia are scum hunting within their own ranks for a mole that may or may not be there. It's Mafia-Inception.

    The reason for all the weird rules for what shows up in KP's concerning deaths and all is so that the Agent really has a good shot of taking apart the mafia without getting caught by logic. The mafia will need to do reads on how each player is playing and acting in PMs and in thread of course if they hope to catch the traitor.

    Alright I think that's everything please post in here or the sign up thread if you have any questions. Hope it makes sense

    Player List:
    Rok
    Scare
    JK - Town Mayor
    Seba
    vp
    Cheddar - Lawyer
    MB
    Flossie
    Blazin - Twin Bodyguard
    Cmness
    Last edited by Wildfire8; 07-29-2015 at 11:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wheelman View Post
    If I don't attack any WWs, can I take credit for the win?

    Trick question, of course I can. After all, here in the forum no rules apply. Folks just declare themselves the winner. Easier. No unpleasant bending.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Pap is trying to do a wildfire with weird.

  2. #2

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    So, this is like The Departed. Sick. I'll read it over more carefully at night and see if I have any recommendations. Good job so far, WF!
    US1 - R8: Seba18 - TMH
    US1 - R9: Easy Faked Oven - RIP (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/284151238bd/http://travian-reports.net/us/report/293427537bc)
    US19 - R1: Seba18 (win)

  3. #3


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    Looks like it will be interesting, if nothing else. It will probably end up unbalanced one way or another the first time, but learn from that and adjust and try hosting it again a few weeks later.

    Now actual comments/recommendations:
    1. Put the RB before the Protection in order of roles (unless protection is meant to be more powerful?)
    2. I don't think you should allow multiple assassinations in one night.
    3. 4 Mafia out of 11 is NOT balanced (in a normal game) - I wouldn't put 4 until at least 13 or 14 people, maybe even higher as a limit, depending on balance of Specials. And when you consider balance, treat the deep cover as town and traitor as mafia (so I guess if you are counting them both as Mafia, then 4 of 11 makes sense)

  4. #4

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    Question:

    Are saves usually before Kills?

    Far-fetched suggestion:

    What if you have the Traitor and the Undercover Agent send an investigation every night in order to find the "mole" in the other team. And if he/she does, then it goes through as a kill.

    Or maybe have this role only for the Undercover Agent?
    US1 - R8: Seba18 - TMH
    US1 - R9: Easy Faked Oven - RIP (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/284151238bd/http://travian-reports.net/us/report/293427537bc)
    US19 - R1: Seba18 (win)

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Seba View Post
    Question:

    Are saves usually before Kills?

    Far-fetched suggestion:

    What if you have the Traitor and the Undercover Agent send an investigation every night in order to find the "mole" in the other team. And if he/she does, then it goes through as a kill.

    Or maybe have this role only for the Undercover Agent?
    Saves - makes no difference except very rare case of doc killed and 2nd kill that night and doc picked the other to save

    Investigations - would be way too overpowering unless consequences for wrong guess, but I like WF's assassination option better

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_kroeker View Post
    Saves - makes no difference except very rare case of doc killed and 2nd kill that night and doc picked the other to save

    Investigations - would be way too overpowering unless consequences for wrong guess, but I like WF's assassination option better
    I might have not explained myself well. Not an investigation but rather sending in a name in order to figure out if that is the other mole.
    US1 - R8: Seba18 - TMH
    US1 - R9: Easy Faked Oven - RIP (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/284151238bd/http://travian-reports.net/us/report/293427537bc)
    US19 - R1: Seba18 (win)

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by Seba View Post
    I might have not explained myself well. Not an investigation but rather sending in a name in order to figure out if that is the other mole.
    I wasn't confused. There will only be about 3 Mafia. The Traitor will kill the other within 2-3 nights (1 if he's lucky).

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_kroeker View Post
    I wasn't confused. There will only be about 3 Mafia. The Traitor will kill the other within 2-3 nights (1 if he's lucky).
    I thought the traitor did not know who the other Mafia members were????
    US1 - R8: Seba18 - TMH
    US1 - R9: Easy Faked Oven - RIP (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/284151238bd/http://travian-reports.net/us/report/293427537bc)
    US19 - R1: Seba18 (win)

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_kroeker View Post
    Looks like it will be interesting, if nothing else. It will probably end up unbalanced one way or another the first time, but learn from that and adjust and try hosting it again a few weeks later.

    Now actual comments/recommendations:
    1. Put the RB before the Protection in order of roles (unless protection is meant to be more powerful?)
    2. I don't think you should allow multiple assassinations in one night.
    3. 4 Mafia out of 11 is NOT balanced (in a normal game) - I wouldn't put 4 until at least 13 or 14 people, maybe even higher as a limit, depending on balance of Specials. And when you consider balance, treat the deep cover as town and traitor as mafia (so I guess if you are counting them both as Mafia, then 4 of 11 makes sense)
    1. Yes I want to power up protection as I consider it a pretty bogus special in general. Personal preference shouldn't unbalance too much since everything is one shot.
    2. The idea of multiple in one night is too further force the mafia to have to trust each other and not call in assassinations unless certain. In this game the mafia can be their own worst enemy if they aren't coolheaded and logical.
    3. It would be 3 out of 11 with 2 henchmen and 1 traitor it would be lylo on 3rd night and with an under cover in the mafia plus one of the mafia not being in contact I don't think it'd be too overpowered. Keep in mind if it gets close the undercover can take steps either in pm or in thread to keep town in the game.

    Hope this addresses concerns
    Quote Originally Posted by wheelman View Post
    If I don't attack any WWs, can I take credit for the win?

    Trick question, of course I can. After all, here in the forum no rules apply. Folks just declare themselves the winner. Easier. No unpleasant bending.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Pap is trying to do a wildfire with weird.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildfire8 View Post
    1. Yes I want to power up protection as I consider it a pretty bogus special in general. Personal preference shouldn't unbalance too much since everything is one shot.
    2. The idea of multiple in one night is too further force the mafia to have to trust each other and not call in assassinations unless certain. In this game the mafia can be their own worst enemy if they aren't coolheaded and logical.
    3. It would be 3 out of 11 with 2 henchmen and 1 traitor it would be lylo on 3rd night and with an under cover in the mafia plus one of the mafia not being in contact I don't think it'd be too overpowered. Keep in mind if it gets close the undercover can take steps either in pm or in thread to keep town in the game.

    Hope this addresses concerns
    Looks good to me.
    US1 - R8: Seba18 - TMH
    US1 - R9: Easy Faked Oven - RIP (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/284151238bd/http://travian-reports.net/us/report/293427537bc)
    US19 - R1: Seba18 (win)

  11. #11

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    Seems like there will be a mafia game within the mafia chat as well lol.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmness View Post
    Seems like there will be a mafia game within the mafia chat as well lol.
    exactly we'll hopefully see some interesting screenshots after the game is done for those like me that will be just guessing at what is going on between them.
    Quote Originally Posted by wheelman View Post
    If I don't attack any WWs, can I take credit for the win?

    Trick question, of course I can. After all, here in the forum no rules apply. Folks just declare themselves the winner. Easier. No unpleasant bending.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Pap is trying to do a wildfire with weird.

  13. #13

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    All roles PM'ed please message me if I somehow missed you
    also made one or two small changes to the rules so check it out
    Last edited by Wildfire8; 07-25-2015 at 07:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wheelman View Post
    If I don't attack any WWs, can I take credit for the win?

    Trick question, of course I can. After all, here in the forum no rules apply. Folks just declare themselves the winner. Easier. No unpleasant bending.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Pap is trying to do a wildfire with weird.

  14. #14

    Scarecrow's Avatar
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    I originally missed reading all town roles are 1-shot. Going to very much be a game of pro-mafia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
    I originally missed reading all town roles are 1-shot. Going to very much be a game of pro-mafia.
    Oh yeah, and with open comms this should be a very different round of mafia than what we've been playing recently. Hope y'all enjoy it
    Quote Originally Posted by wheelman View Post
    If I don't attack any WWs, can I take credit for the win?

    Trick question, of course I can. After all, here in the forum no rules apply. Folks just declare themselves the winner. Easier. No unpleasant bending.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Pap is trying to do a wildfire with weird.

  16. #16
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    Well dammit. I'm always a step behind in Open Comms games.
    Live Life, Love Others.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeLink View Post
    Cheddar is one of the popular, energetic guys.
    "A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult." - Proverbs 12:16

    "Comparison is the thief of joy." - Theodore Roosevelt

    Dethy Analysis Helper

  17. #17
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Open comms. Hmm. Interesting. Might sort out the really good liars from the rest.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  18. #18
    Senator cheddar's Avatar
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    So vote: No Lynch tonight?
    Live Life, Love Others.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeLink View Post
    Cheddar is one of the popular, energetic guys.
    "A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult." - Proverbs 12:16

    "Comparison is the thief of joy." - Theodore Roosevelt

    Dethy Analysis Helper

  19. #19

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    Vote: No lunch

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  20. #20

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    Vote: Scarecrow
    Reason: Voted for no lunch. We need our lunch.

  21. #21

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    I am sure Scare meant to say no lunch...BRUNCH!

    If he did not mean to say that...then vote the scurrilous meal stealer off!
    Note:Any posts made by this poster should always be construed in the most innocent angelic way possible. The poster is not responsible for where your depraved minds go, if you have a depraved mind.

    Our Lady of Croppers ~Semper DOS~ ~Viva Toons~ || This area intentionally left blank. || The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity ~ Harlan Ellison

  22. #22
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    No Burn, No Pap..
    Next in line then.
    Vote: Blazin
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmness View Post
    Vote: Scarecrow
    Reason: Voted for no lunch. We need our lunch.
    This. I want lunch!
    Vote: Scare

    FoS:
    Wild
    Reason: pretty sure he knows who the Mafia are.

  24. #24

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    Vote: blazin
    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    o ya. i hope he goes back to it. i liked my name being in some1's sig

  25. #25
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    Oh, so NOW you think I'm right?????

    FoS mb
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  26. #26

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    Vote: Wild
    Reason: Made my lose my first Dethy game, duh.
    US1 - R8: Seba18 - TMH
    US1 - R9: Easy Faked Oven - RIP (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/284151238bd/http://travian-reports.net/us/report/293427537bc)
    US19 - R1: Seba18 (win)

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Oh, so NOW you think I'm right?????
    You're never right!
    US1 - R8: Seba18 - TMH
    US1 - R9: Easy Faked Oven - RIP (http://travian-reports.net/us/report/284151238bd/http://travian-reports.net/us/report/293427537bc)
    US19 - R1: Seba18 (win)

  28. #28

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    Vote: Wild

    Reason: It is always best the game host is gone.
    Note:Any posts made by this poster should always be construed in the most innocent angelic way possible. The poster is not responsible for where your depraved minds go, if you have a depraved mind.

    Our Lady of Croppers ~Semper DOS~ ~Viva Toons~ || This area intentionally left blank. || The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity ~ Harlan Ellison

  29. #29
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    votescare
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  30. #30


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    Unvote: Scare
    Vote: Wild
    Reason:
    just someone can later say I jumped off the Scare train.
    Or because Flossie is right. Or because Wild knows who the Mafia are.
    Or just for fun. Or because my 11-sided coin said to vote for him (I'm glad it didn't say to vote myself).

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flossie Schmumpus View Post
    I am sure Scare meant to say no lunch...BRUNCH!

    If he did not mean to say that...then vote the scurrilous meal stealer off!
    I meant what I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by jason_kroeker View Post
    Unvote: Scare
    Vote: Wild
    Reason:
    just someone can later say I jumped off the Scare train.
    Or because Flossie is right. Or because Wild knows who the Mafia are.
    Or just for fun. Or because my 11-sided coin said to vote for him (I'm glad it didn't say to vote myself).
    FOS: JK
    Jumping off train.

    Also, get a d20.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  32. #32
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    unvotescare
    voteno lynch
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  33. #33
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    FoS: Flossie.
    No analysis yet. That ALWAYS means mafia. True dat.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    FoS: Flossie.
    No analysis yet. That ALWAYS means mafia. True dat.
    Pfft, my analyses were routinely ignored and in my dotage I have grown lazy. I am sure of this....Wild knows who mafia is and he is hiding them. Vote Wild.
    Note:Any posts made by this poster should always be construed in the most innocent angelic way possible. The poster is not responsible for where your depraved minds go, if you have a depraved mind.

    Our Lady of Croppers ~Semper DOS~ ~Viva Toons~ || This area intentionally left blank. || The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity ~ Harlan Ellison

  35. #35

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    KP: 1
    The town rioted angrily demanding that the almighty Wildfire release the names of the evil villains.
    Looking down upon the commoners he laughed and famously said, "Let them drink Natty Ice.... and chill out brah"
    Unamused the town lynched him and nothing was accomplished.
    No-Lynch was Lynched

    In the meantime JK was Killed and was a Town Mayor ... LOL classic
    Quote Originally Posted by wheelman View Post
    If I don't attack any WWs, can I take credit for the win?

    Trick question, of course I can. After all, here in the forum no rules apply. Folks just declare themselves the winner. Easier. No unpleasant bending.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Pap is trying to do a wildfire with weird.

  36. #36
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    OK, well that's just sad. Could we have the dead speak a bit? JK could maybe just answer yes/no type of things to logic questions? This round is going to be hard enough as it is.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  37. #37

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    It would make sense to me for mayors, cops and roleblockers to use their abilities earlier so as to not run the risk of not being able to use the specials (why a detective wouldn't have a read on someone now unless having targetted JK is beyond me). Doctors and bodyguards I would think to hold out until they have good indications on who the mafia might target.

    Anyone would have motive to target JK so nothing can be gained from the KP.
    RVS again anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  38. #38

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    Vote: cmness
    Forever quiet and lurks in the background. I'd rather force a more talkative game from him [her? (Sorry I don't know your gender.)]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  39. #39
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
    It would make sense to me for mayors, cops and roleblockers to use their abilities earlier so as to not run the risk of not being able to use the specials (why a detective wouldn't have a read on someone now unless having targetted JK is beyond me). Doctors and bodyguards I would think to hold out until they have good indications on who the mafia might target.

    Anyone would have motive to target JK so nothing can be gained from the KP.
    RVS again anyone?
    Yeah I can't see anything from what anyone has said. Certainly nothing in the KP.

    Vote: Blazin

    Cos
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  40. #40
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Rok, you play the same way every round, badly.
    Mayor gets killed last night and you are targeting a townie.

    voterok
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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