Are we all bigots then? Or is just trump?

[Rokchick]

There ya go then

I can tell you did NOT read that "rant", or you wouldn't have called it a rant. HIS explanation is filled with references and "proof" (please note proof is stated lightly) while yours is just "it is because I say it is". I think you put the label of " rant" on the wrong person.

No, dear, it was an opinion peice. And not a particularly well written one. He has an argument about semantics and gets all huffy over not having everyone agree with him. I don't care about the origin of the word, the reality is what matters.
But since you like sciency sites (isn't that the thing with yo good ole boys down there? Or is it the opposite, I can never remember....)
And since you seem confused about it, this is what it is about
And some human beings seem to agree
And since posting links to people who agree with you seems to be a thing...


PS. I googled "**** culture research" and all of those links came up on the first page. So it's hard to see how they can be missed unless someone tries to find the opposite of information, by say googling "**** culture is a lie" and then you get links to a heap of misogynistic sites as well as ones like this. But who would do that?

There is no 'master class' unless you assume all other classes are inferior. And if that is the case, who's the bigot now?

Sometimes I think you are smart, and other times I just shake my head. OK, I'll put this one down to cultural differences.

So wait. You honestly believe you must be offended by everything and be the champion for what reason?

I'm not offended, I'm pointing something out. What is the problem with me doing that? Do you want you and your society to continue down the road of ignorant bigotry? I Don't want mine to. If I WAS offended (and to be honest some of the tripe posted on here does offend me personally, but I understand the low baseline they come from, so I get over it) what would you have me do? Go to the mods (CUTE FLUFFY KITTENS. Insulting the Mods of the forums you are allowed to post in isn't the smartest move )? No, I'd rather fight my own battles against it. If your response is "shut up, your voice is not worth hearing", then guess what? You really ARE part of the problem!

Criticism is NOT racism. Being anti-third wave feminism is NOT sexism it's LOGIC.

Criticism based on race IS racist. It is pretty much the definition of it.

It's really not hard it's called context.

You don't have context. You are on the outside of it.

'**** Culture' isn't real outside of prison. The idea that **** is acceptable outside of prison is laughable and pathetic. No group of people outside of prison view it as acceptable behavior, unlike say racism.

Please go and look at the definitions of **** culture as used today in the real world, and then decide how you want your daughters treated. Every time you think or say "did you see what she was wearing though". That's it right there. I've had those conversations on here as you know. It is not the girls job to control the urges of random men, or even boys she's dating. You are not animals. Stuff like this goes on until someone points it out and gets it stopped. How do a group of people think this is OK the first time they hear it? Oh, that would be the cultural context and society they grow up in. Which is the point!

[5m4llP0X]

I'm not offended, I'm pointing something out. What is the problem with me doing that? Do you want you and your society to continue down the road of ignorant bigotry? I Don't want mine to. If I WAS offended (and to be honest some of the tripe posted on here does offend me personally, but I understand the low baseline they come from, so I get over it) what would you have me do? Go to the mods (CUTE FLUFFY KITTENS)? No, I'd rather fight my own battles against it. If your response is "shut up, your voice is not worth hearing", then guess what? You really ARE part of the problem!

No, you're not pointing out, you're offended. You even said as much. So why must you feel the need to be offended for others? Why do you feel the need to champion made up issues?

Criticism based on race IS racist. It is pretty much the definition of it.

Show me where I criticized a race. I know I've been critical of a religion, or a culture, but those are not races.

You don't have context. You are on the outside of it.

Why, because I'm white? Who's the racist now?

Please go and look at the definitions of **** culture as used today in the real world, and then decide how you want your daughters treated. Every time you think or say "did you see what she was wearing though". That's it right there. I've had those conversations on here as you know. It is not the girls job to control the urges of random men, or even boys she's dating. You are not animals. Stuff like this goes on until someone points it out and gets it stopped. How do a group of people think this is OK the first time they hear it? Oh, that would be the cultural context and society they grow up in. Which is the point!

If you want to call it an epidemic I could agree.
http://time.com/30545/its-time-to-en...ture-hysteria/
http://nypost.com/2015/09/27/the-myt...-****-culture/
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...t-****-culture
http://www.city-journal.org/html/cam...yth-13061.html
People don't **** because it's 'acceptable' they **** for power and control. And people who seek power and control in this form don't do it to be 'accepted'.
Seriously, show me a group of people trying to legalize ****. I can show you a pedophile culture because there is a group trying to actually make it acceptable (NAMBLA), but there is NOT a culture of **** because everyone KNOWS it is unacceptable.
EDIT:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****_culture#Criticisms

[Rokchick]

No, you're not pointing out, you're offended. You even said as much. So why must you feel the need to be offended for others? Why do you feel the need to champion made up issues?

At best I said it is offensive. Racist jokes are pretty much always offensive to those who are the butt of them if they are made from a position of power. Yes, that's white guys making jokes about any other race in the US.

Show me where I criticized a race. I know I've been critical of a religion, or a culture, but those are not races.

It is a similar situation though. You criticise a religion or culture for what a very few of the group do. Akin to me thinking "all americans are idiots" (but worse, since a lot of you are going to vote for trump, after all.....).

Why, because I'm white? Who's the racist now?

See, you REALLY don't understand racism.

People don't **** because it's 'acceptable' they **** for power and control. And people who seek power and control in this form don't do it to be 'accepted'.
Seriously, show me a group of people trying to legalize ****. I can show you a pedophile culture because there is a group trying to actually make it acceptable (NAMBLA), but there is NOT a culture of **** because everyone KNOWS it is unacceptable.

Yes, it's about power. People commit "crimes" because they think they will get away with it as well. So not to become accepted, but because it's acceptable. If you go to the Philippines, are you (not specific you) going to sit down on the beach and smoke some weed? No? How about in pre-legal days in california. Why? Could it be cultural acceptance levels? Do comedians in the Philippines joke about smoking weed quite as much as in the US? Just because you know there's nothing that would make you think **** is acceptable (your definition of ****, that is), that doesn't make it true for everyone. If only 10% of the men think **** doesn't include badgering their wife or date into sex when she's not fully into it, that is a hell of a lot of potential rapists out there.

But again, think of your (grand)daughters.....

[5m4llP0X]

At best I said it is offensive. Racist jokes are pretty much always offensive to those who are the butt of them if they are made from a position of power. Yes, that's white guys making jokes about any other race in the US.

Here's that 'position of power' BS. The only TRUE position of power that exists in the modern world is in wealth and political levels--where it can actually be measured. And more of it has to deal with intent than anything else. I've made 3/5ths jokes in front of black co-workers before and got a good laugh because they know it's a joke (Of course it might have also helped that one had to pull ME off of a white supremacist who tried to start **** in the club). One even quickly joked about Scandinavians sucking off the third reich (my sleeve tattoo) to which I had to give him props.

It is a similar situation though. You criticize a religion or culture for what a very few of the group do. Akin to me thinking "all americans are idiots" (but worse, since a lot of you are going to vote for trump, after all.....).

Entirely different. You can analyze (heh, anal) a culture or religions praise or even acceptance of violence based on their texts and conclude they're a violent culture/religion. An example of this would be the White supremacist culture and their rhetoric of violence against minorities. I can conclude that they are a violent culture and be critical of that without being bigoted. If I where to call them all stupid rednecks, however, that would be because some of them are begrudgingly well educated.

See, you REALLY don't understand racism.

Thank you Inigo Montoya.

Yes, it's about power. People commit "crimes" because they think they will get away with it as well. So not to become accepted, but because it's acceptable. If you go to the Philippines, are you (not specific you) going to sit down on the beach and smoke some weed? No? How about in pre-legal days in california. Why? Could it be cultural acceptance levels? Do comedians in the Philippines joke about smoking weed quite as much as in the US? Just because you know there's nothing that would make you think **** is acceptable (your definition of ****, that is), that doesn't make it true for everyone. If only 10% of the men think **** doesn't include badgering their wife or date into sex when she's not fully into it, that is a hell of a lot of potential rapists out there.

Circumlocution. **** outside of prison and maybe some far off cultures will never view **** as 'acceptable'.

But again, think of your (grand)daughters.....

Do you REALLY want me having kids? I don't.

[Eric Rasputin]

[5m4llP0X]

I'll try to make it more entertaining if I know I have an audience.

[Eric Rasputin]

I'll try to make it more entertaining if I know I have an audience.

Please do ... This is one of the reasons why forums are so good and it keeps making me come back ..

[5m4llP0X]

Please do ... You one of the reasons why forums are so good and it keeps making me come back ..

This is how I read that comment.

[Eric Rasputin]

This is how I read that comment.

You're so full of yourself it's making me feel sad for Rok and the others ... How did those guys manage you for all these years

[5m4llP0X]

You're so awesome

[Eric Rasputin]

I dont see your name here ... You in bed with the CUTE FLUFFY KITTENS? ...

http://prntscr.com/crki57

[Woden]

Please go and look at the definitions of **** culture as used today in the real world, and then decide how you want your daughters treated. Every time you think or say "did you see what she was wearing though". That's it right there. I've had those conversations on here as you know. It is not the girls job to control the urges of random men, or even boys she's dating. You are not animals. Stuff like this goes on until someone points it out and gets it stopped. How do a group of people think this is OK the first time they hear it? Oh, that would be the cultural context and society they grow up in. Which is the point!

I can honestly say that I have never personally interacted with anyone (real-life or over the internet) who has even hinted at thinking that what a woman wears could justify her being raped. Given that this is one of the very frequently used examples given in favor of "**** culture", that does certainly cause a blow to its credibility from my perspective; while such people do undoubtedly exist (every once in a while, such a jackwad gets dug out from under their rock to sit in a jury or otherwise get a bit of public scrutiny), but they certainly don't even seem to be a sizeable minority.

By contrast, I've often seen feminists hoot and howl at people who suggest that women take precautions (e.g., walking with a group) to keep them safe from getting raped, calling it "victim blaming" and saying that it "promotes **** culture"; seriously, nearly any forum thread or comment section related to that sort of discussion seems to get feminists posting that sort of nonsense, despite how it is logically no different at all from giving anti-robbery or anti-burglarly advice, which nobody construes to be blaming the victim or defending the perpetrator.

Furthermore, I've also seen feminists extend the same **** culture argument you are putting forward here ("It's not the girls job to control the urges of random men", etc.) to victimless actions that they do provoke, most commonly complaints about getting hit on when dressing provocatively in public settings. Quite often, they even point towards it being "evidence" of **** culture, despite the complete lack of violence, intimidation, or attempted ****.

If only 10% of the men think **** doesn't include badgering their wife or date into sex when she's not fully into it, that is a hell of a lot of potential rapists out there.

That's also a hugely expansive definition of ****, to the extent that I'd hardly be surprised if only 10% or less of women think such situations are ****. Do you have any data supporting that the alleged victims actually feel that they were raped? Because that's been a repeated problem with the expansive definitions of **** that feminists seem to be so very fond of using -- i.e., other than hardline feminists, most people don't seem to think it's actually ****.

Furthermore, you're treating it as if sex can only be undertaken for the sake of sex alone. That's not how relationships work. Heck, to use a completely non-sexual comparison, people might do a chore, or play Monopoly or something, despite not particularly wanting to at the time, to make their significant other happy; this doesn't necessarily mean that they feel they were forced or coerced into it, even if their S.O. asked numerous times. That's not even getting into tit-for-tat arrangements (compare to, e.g., "I'll take the trash out if you'll mow the lawn"). Why do you think this is suddenly an intrinsically different situation once sex is involved?

FFS, I spend as much time alone as possible and even I recognize this sort of stuff as pretty fundamental portions of human interaction.

[5m4llP0X]

I dont see your name here ... You in bed with the CUTE FLUFFY KITTENS? ...

http://prntscr.com/crki57

I'm hidden. Here's how to do it.

[Cisalpine]

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but other than radical feminists, I'm not a bigot. Lol

@ Rok. I sense a huge amount of hate from you regarding ****. You need to let it go. Find forgiveness so it doesn't eat you alive.

@Woden. In Rok's defense, (ugh) I do not believe she is referring to the "not tonight dear, I have a headache". I believe she is speaking of the exact kind of **** we all think of as ****, but from a spouse. I believe she is referring to a spouse that literally rapes their spouse/S.O. There is no other word for it than ****. Though, I could be wrong and your interpretation is correct.

I dont see your name here ... You in bed with the CUTE FLUFFY KITTENS? ...

http://prntscr.com/crki57

I'm gonna suggest that you read the forum rules, and forum basic usage.
That or simply think twice before posting.

That's twice in one thread that Mods have been insulted.

[Rokchick]

I can honestly say that I have never personally interacted with anyone (real-life or over the internet) who has even hinted at thinking that what a woman wears could justify her being raped. Given that this is one of the very frequently used examples given in favor of "**** culture", that does certainly cause a blow to its credibility from my perspective; while such people do undoubtedly exist (every once in a while, such a jackwad gets dug out from under their rock to sit in a jury or otherwise get a bit of public scrutiny), but they certainly don't even seem to be a sizeable minority.

By contrast, I've often seen feminists hoot and howl at people who suggest that women take precautions (e.g., walking with a group) to keep them safe from getting raped, calling it "victim blaming" and saying that it "promotes **** culture"; seriously, nearly any forum thread or comment section related to that sort of discussion seems to get feminists posting that sort of nonsense, despite how it is logically no different at all from giving anti-robbery or anti-burglarly advice, which nobody construes to be blaming the victim or defending the perpetrator.

Furthermore, I've also seen feminists extend the same **** culture argument you are putting forward here ("It's not the girls job to control the urges of random men", etc.) to victimless actions that they do provoke, most commonly complaints about getting hit on when dressing provocatively in public settings. Quite often, they even point towards it being "evidence" of **** culture, despite the complete lack of violence, intimidation, or attempted ****.


That's also a hugely expansive definition of ****......

Aaaand he's baaack.
I said potential rapists. And, I also said it's about power. So a lot of your response is pointless to my argument.
Did you read the link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/ent...b00d9c3a1647c0 Victim blaming.....
But, since we are into the "my personal experience...., so therefore" category. I personally know lots of women who have been raped. Some by their partners, some by strangers. Most of them would never talk about it outside of groups specifically designed to get them to talk. Certainly never to men. I know some of the men involved as well. Their mates usually know nothing about it until they are outed or convicted. Unless they are young larrikens, then they probably joined in.
But thank you so much for your comments on the definition of what you consider ****. Since you have such wide ranging experience in the subject, I'll pop it where it belongs.

And for both you and the poxxy one.... you don't need to think **** is acceptable to be part of the **** culture. It seems pretty obvious to me, but any attempts to dehumanize women/gays/other prisoners/insertwhatever or to victim blame is pertinent to the culture that allows **** to be such a big issue. You guys want to choose to believe it's not a problem, because to you it isn't. But you are part of the problem. Dismissing cops shooting blacks as "they deserve it" before a trial is the same sort of thing. Black = likely baddies. "It isn't really ****, because I said so", or "she shouldn't have walked home in the dark", or any other of a myriad of victim blaming comments, adds to the culture. Most rapists are never reported. If you had many close female friends you would know that. Because at least one of them would have been raped and not reported it. /Insert basement dweller insult here.

So donnie and his recently exposed appalling comments counts as evidence. He sees women as things to use for sex. It's not as if it's a surprise. He talks about his daughter in terms of how she looks to men and dating her ffs. And you have a huge chunk of the population voting for him to be YOUR leader. How is that not screaming at you?

PS Wodey, I flat out don't believe your first sentence. Unless you define personally interacted as being in the same room, or discussing the colour of your undies. You interact with cofc and other trolls on here.

PPS. Good to see you still on track with the "all feminists are evil" line. I was hoping you hadn't grown out of it yet.

PPPS. Here's a hint (in case you ever meet a woman). It doesn't matter how she's dressed. Don't hit on her. She's not doing it to please you.

PPPPS. Cis, roughly right. Although my definition of "real" **** is probably different to yours. It certainly is to cofcs.

[Cisalpine]

I HIGHLY doubt it being a prior victim myself. I've mentioned it on here before so it's no big secret.

[5m4llP0X]

Aaaand he's baaack.
I said potential rapists. And, I also said it's about power. So a lot of your response is pointless to my argument.
Did you read the link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/ent...b00d9c3a1647c0 Victim blaming.....
But, since we are into the "my personal experience...., so therefore" category. I personally know lots of women who have been raped. Some by their partners, some by strangers. Most of them would never talk about it outside of groups specifically designed to get them to talk. Certainly never to men. I know some of the men involved as well. Their mates usually know nothing about it until they are outed or convicted. Unless they are young larrikens, then they probably joined in.
But thank you so much for your comments on the definition of what you consider ****. Since you have such wide ranging experience in the subject, I'll pop it where it belongs.

And for both you and the poxxy one.... you don't need to think **** is acceptable to be part of the **** culture. It seems pretty obvious to me, but any attempts to dehumanize women/gays/other prisoners/insertwhatever or to victim blame is pertinent to the culture that allows **** to be such a big issue.

I never blamed the victim, get your head out of your backside. I said there isn't a '**** culture outside of prison' which is true. Feminists ripped it off of that documentary and have been trying to make it their own since.

You guys want to choose to believe it's not a problem, because to you it isn't. But you are part of the problem.

Can you point out EXACTLY where I said **** isn't a problem? Because I can point out where I claimed 'epidemic' which is a more accurate description.

Definition of epidemic

1: affecting or tending to affect a disproportionately large number of individuals within a population, community, or region at the same time <typhoid was epidemic>

2 a : excessively prevalent b : contagious 4 <epidemic laughter>

3: characterized by very widespread growth or extent : of, relating to, or constituting an epidemic <the practice had reached epidemic proportions>
That sounds pretty accurate to me.
Whereas:

Simple Definition of culture

: the beliefs, customs, arts, etc., of a particular society, group, place, or time

: a particular society that has its own beliefs, ways of life, art, etc.

: a way of thinking, behaving, or working that exists in a place or organization (such as a business)

This does not seem like an accurate definition. It is NOT part of our customs, arts (not in a positive light), way of life, our thoughts, beliefs, or part of the work culture.

Dismissing cops shooting blacks as "they deserve it" before a trial is the same sort of thing. Black = likely baddies.

Find me where either said black=bad or anything that seems like that.

"It isn't really ****, because I said so", or "she shouldn't have walked home in the dark", or any other of a myriad of victim blaming comments, adds to the culture. Most rapists are never reported. If you had many close female friends you would know that. Because at least one of them would have been raped and not reported it. /Insert basement dweller insult here.

In that case he wasn't victim blaming. Offering suggestions to prevent **** like: Take a martial arts class, carry mace, walk with friends, is not victim blaming it's ways to keep people safe. In no way is it saying 'she deserved it because she didn't do/have those things' it is, however, saying "personal protection is paramount. Try to be safe"

So donnie and his recently exposed appalling comments counts as evidence. He sees women as things to use for sex. It's not as if it's a surprise. He talks about his daughter in terms of how she looks to men and dating her ffs. And you have a huge chunk of the population voting for him to be YOUR leader. How is that not screaming at you?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chauvinism (Part 3)
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/****.html
However, he has been ACTUALLY accused of **** and is on trial for it, but that didn't start until he almost won the RNC. Once he is found guilty, he would become ineligible because it is a felony.

PS Wodey, I flat out don't believe your first sentence. Unless you define personally interacted as being in the same room, or discussing the colour of your undies. You interact with cofc and other trolls on here.

Believe it or not, he's very likely to be right. Woden, like I, refuse to hang out with scumbags. And people who think women 'dressing slutty' or whatever deserve to be raped are scumbags.

PPS. Good to see you still on track with the "all feminists are evil" line. I was hoping you hadn't grown out of it yet.

It's not all Feminists. I mean Emma Watton seems to have her head out of her *** and Ayaan Hirsi Ali talks about areas where women oppression actually exists and isn't afraid to say something.

PPPS. Here's a hint (in case you ever meet a woman). It doesn't matter how she's dressed. Don't hit on her. She's not doing it to please you.

1) Are you talking about terrible pickup lines or even flirting? If the former, then I agree--they're tacky. If the latter then please eat a bag of cockroaches. 2) We know. It's to draw attention of other women.

PPPPS. Cis, roughly right. Although my definition of "real" **** is probably different to yours. It certainly is to cofcs.

As long as your views aren't this we can have a discussion.

[Rokchick]

No time or internet to reply, but when you post radfem links, ima post rad MRA. Makes about as much sense!

[5m4llP0X]

No time or internet to reply, but when you post radfem links, ima post rad MRA. Makes about as much sense!

I said as long as your views AREN'T that. Otherwise I'd be better off blocking you on the forums. Radical fems are just as bad as the alt-right.

[Rokchick]

I said as long as your views AREN'T that. Otherwise I'd be better off blocking you on the forums. Radical fems are just as bad as the alt-right.

Yeah I know. But you opened the door....

[5m4llP0X]

Yeah I know. But you opened the door....

That reminds me, I found the MRA version of Trigglypuff once. I gotta send it to ya he is super cringe.

[Woden]

But thank you so much for your comments on the definition of what you consider ****.

Considering that "what [I] consider ****" is based on the standard legal definitions, while your definition is most definitely not, that doesn't seem like a very smart path for you to start going down. But of course, it is you we are talking about...

you don't need to think **** is acceptable to be part of the **** culture.

but any attempts to dehumanize women/gays/other prisoners/insertwhatever or to victim blame is pertinent to the culture that allows **** to be such a big issue.

A) Where have I done this? Quote something to this effect from me, I dare you.

B) Are you seriously pulling up the "victim blaming" line (without even bothering to expand on it) in response to a post where I commented that such arguments are most often used incorrectly to smear people who are not blaming the victim?

"It isn't really ****, because I said so"

Or, how about something that is actually close to what I said: "It isn't really ****, because nearly none of the alleged victims consider it to be ****."

If you disagree with the last half of that statement, then feel free to correct me with some hard data, but given all of the times feminist **** definitions have been shot down by such data, I'm neither going to hold my breath nor give these grossly expanded definitions the benefit of doubt.

or "she shouldn't have walked home in the dark", or any other of a myriad of victim blaming comments, adds to the culture.

Do you think that telling mugging victims (or even potential mugging victims) to not walk home in the dark is "victim blaming"? Do you think that telling (potential) burglary victims about things they could do to make their homes more secure is "victim blaming"? Do you think that telling people to install an antivirus program is "victim blaming"?

If you do not consider those examples "victim blaming," you're a hypocrite. Not to mention completely ignorant, since I already pointed this exact same line of reasoning out in the post you are responding to.
If you do consider those examples to be "victim blaming," well, congratulations, you're part of a tiny fringe minority of lunatics.

You interact with cofc and other trolls on here.

And where have they ever said that a **** victim "deserved it" or anything to that effect? Provide some quotes or quit slandering people.

[5m4llP0X]

Woden: because it's written isn't that technically libel?

[Sapient]

I'm a self identified bigot.

And Woden, my Chemistry teacher in high school was a devout Mormon. And she said **** victims were probably dressing immodestly, if our students were any indication.

She also called one of our classmates a slut, cause her collarbones were showing. And this was the sweetest, non-slutty girl ever.

[5m4llP0X]

I'm a self identified bigot.

And Woden, my Chemistry teacher in high school was a devout Mormon. And she said **** victims were probably dressing immodestly, if our students were any indication.

She also called one of our classmates a slut, cause her collarbones were showing. And this was the sweetest, non-slutty girl ever.

Surprised she wasn't fired for it. That sort of attitude is toxic for schools.

[Sapient]

Surprised she wasn't fired for it. That sort of attitude is toxic for schools.

She was never reported. And this is rural NC.

[5m4llP0X]

She was never reported. And this is rural NC.

If she said that to one student she's likely said it to others.

[Sapient]

If she said that to one student she's likely said it to others.

Idk then. She's very big in the Mormon community, maybe they're strong arming the school?

[5m4llP0X]

Idk then. She's very big in the Mormon community, maybe they're strong arming the school?

Schools are kind of pushovers...

[Meherrin]

Just to provide a different perspective. In Canada, there is no act in the Criminal Code called ****. What there is, is a series of increasingly serious forms of sexual assault. Here's the Canadian law, as explained by the website of a police department in a major Canadian city.

What is Sexual Assault?

Sexual Assault is defined as an assault of a sexual nature that violates the sexual integrity of the victim. The Supreme Court of Canada held that the act of sexual assault does not depend solely on contact with any specific part of the human anatomy but rather the act of a sexual nature that violates the sexual integrity of the victim. When investigating a sexual assault, there are certain relevant factors to consider:

The part of the body touched
The nature of the contact
The situation in which the contact occurred
The words and gestures accompanying the act
All other circumstances surrounding the act
Any threats that may or may not be accompanied by force

The victim of the sexual assault can be man or woman and the attacker can be of the same sex as the victim. A spouse may be charged with sexual assault upon the other spouse.

Punishment

Everyone who commits a sexual assault is guilty of

An indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years or
An offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months

Sexual Assault With a Weapon/Threats to a Third Party/Causing Bodily Harm Section 272

Every person commits an offence who, in committing a sexual assault

Carries, uses or threatens to use a weapon or an imitation of a weapon
Threatens to cause bodily harm to a person other than the complainant
Causes bodily harm to the complainant, or
Is a party to the offence with any other person
Punishment

Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1) is

Guilty of an indictable offence and liable
Where a firearm is used in the commission of the offence, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of four years and
in any other case, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years

Aggravated Sexual Assault Section 273

Every one commits an aggravated sexual assault who

In committing a sexual assault
Wounds, maims, disfigures or endangers the life of the complainant
Punishment

Every person who

Commits an aggravated sexual assault
Is guilty of an indictable offence and liable
Where a firearm is used in the commission of the offence, to imprisonment for life and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of four years and
In any other case, to imprisonment for life

Consent means the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in the sexual activity in question.

No consent is obtained when:

The agreement is expressed by the words or conduct of another person other than the victim (complainant)
The complainant is incapable of consenting to the activity
The accused (by abusing a position of trust, power or authority) induces the complainant to engage in the act
The complainant expresses by words or conduct a lack of agreement to engage in the act or
The complainant, having consented to engage in the sexual activity, expresses (by words or conduct) a lack of agreement to continue to engage in the activity

http://www.edmontonpolice.ca/Communi...alAssault.aspx


Feel free to discuss. I'm curious about the reactions of various posters here to the legal position in Canada.

[5m4llP0X]

I do not like

An indictable offense and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years

Maximum limits are bogus. People, in history, have done some heinous **** to one another and to think that person should be allowed back on the streets after 10 years is baffling.
I do like

The victim of the sexual assault can be man or woman and the attacker can be of the same sex as the victim. A spouse may be charged with sexual assault upon the other spouse.

It wasn't until 2012 that we broadened the law to include men whereas before it was only unwanted physical penetration of a female.
As much as I hate to reference a TV show, Law and Order SVU touched on this subject early in their run and how a male dancer was handcuffed and was forced to penetrate the party girls but since the laws only defined it as an act on a woman it was thrown out. In reality assault and kidnapping charges might have stuck, but it was an interesting way to bring that issue to light.

[Sapient]

[5m4llP0X]

More on the topic of "**** culture"
http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Man...389097252.html
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...ses-supporters
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1617207/posts
http://on-vigilantism.blogspot.com/2...case.html#more
http://on-vigilantism.blogspot.com/2...home-nets.html
A skinhead group did the same, as well. (cannot post link due to their tattoos)
Add to this the Armed people who intimidated Brock Turner and how slow the police where to respond to it. If we really lived in a "**** culture" why is it that people regard these vigilantes as 'heroes' and 'angels'?
Also: In Montana repeat sex offenders can be sentenced to death, regardless of the age of the victim. (Code Ann. sec. 45-5-503) Personally, I think this law should be federal. Considering rapists have the highest rate of re-offense, a second convictions should net them the death penalty.
So I ask again: How is it a "culture" when it's so vehemently opposed?

[Woden]

The complainant, having consented to engage in the sexual activity, expresses (by words or conduct) a lack of agreement to continue to engage in the activity

I'm a bit curious about this one. From the wording, I can't tell if it means that it becomes sexual assault if the sex continues after such, or if it retroactively makes the entire sexual encounter into sexual assault.

Considering rapists have the highest rate of re-offense

One of your own links disagrees with you:
http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Man...389097252.html

A study by the Alaska Justice Statistical Analysis Center of sex offenders released from Alaska corrections facilities in 2001 found that non-sex offenders were more likely to be rearrested than sex offenders.

Also, unrelated note, but why am I not surprised that Rok hasn't responded to getting called on her bull in this thread, despite having been online at least once in the time since?

[5m4llP0X]

I'm a bit curious about this one. From the wording, I can't tell if it means that it becomes sexual assault if the sex continues after such, or if it retroactively makes the entire sexual encounter into sexual assault.


One of your own links disagrees with you:
http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Man...389097252.html



Also, unrelated note, but why am I not surprised that Rok hasn't responded to getting called on her bull in this thread, despite having been online at least once in the time since?

Sadly, you have a point.
http://www.smart.gov/SOMAPI/sec1/ch5_recidivism.html
Even with the fact that many rapes are not accounted for, the rates of re-offense is lower than what I heard back in the early 2000s (something like 75%).
Still, 31% chance to **** again over 15 years is high. I'm comfortable with removing them from the world.

And yet... you have a presidential candidate like him!

Accused rapist, not convicted.

You have gun control groups, but still a gun culture.

Yep. But we don't have **** groups, or **** advocates.

I'm pretty sure you know what **** culture means, and it doesn't mean openly accepting ****. It means excusing and tolerating behavior that implies or condones sexual violence.

Which does not exist. We may have people who view it under very strict guidelines, or blame victims, but they do not condone it.

It's thousand of untested **** kits.

That's from a lack of funding not a lack of care. When the public votes down more funds to the police force that's one of the things in the budget.

It's only finding out about gang rapes and guys assaulting drunk girls because someone took a video and posted it online while others stood around and watched. It is going to almost any article about a **** situation and seeing the comments. It's groups of footballers chanting songs about non consensual sex, and the thousand of everyday things that just slip past as normal. It will change, but only because it is forced by things like the **** culture discussion. You might not agree with it, but even you will notice things more because of it.

And if it's reported the public goes on a witch hunt to "correct" these people. Sometimes through violence or pressuring the judge. Again: I point out the BS with Brock Turner and the people who hung around his house with guns and kinda, sorta, but not directly threatened his life. Also: the cops complete lack of a reply for so long.

It's advertising like this
-Removed By Moderator-

That's not ****. Nothing those guys are doing to her is ****. It is, however, using sexual suggestion to sell. And sexual suggestion is not ****.

And memes like this


-Removed By Moderator-
I really don't understand the objections and dismissal of it.

This looks like they read too much into "I flirted with him" or the kids are butthurt over girls flirting with them at bars for free drinks before ditching out. (Literally, if I had a dollar for every time I heard someone whine about girls flirting I could buy a yacht.) Not that this excuses their ignorance, but I hope you see why now.

I don't cry "what about the women" when there is an advertising campaign targeting male suicide prevention. That would be... well, it would be whatever you guys keep doing. But it's not appropriate. There are gendered issues, and **** is one of them. In prisons it's still gendered. Most of the perpetrators are still male. The psychology targets the alpha male ego. And the whole issue with the **** culture discussion is to stop the perpetrators. No matter who their victims are.
A
Because I haven't had time. I will tomorrow if I get the chance. But thanks for reminding me of your little obsession... I almost forgot.
nd you know what woden? The law is not written in stone. The Canadians are more advanced in many things. And one of the most obvious is the caliber of their leader.

The ONLY comment about men being raped has been when I applauded Canada for being progressive and how it took the US until recently to recognize it. I will go one further and I think it didn't even count gay or lesbian ****.

[Rokchick]

Also, unrelated note, but why am I not surprised that Rok hasn't responded to getting called on her bull in this thread, despite having been online at least once in the time since?

Because I haven't had time. I will tomorrow if I get the chance. But thanks for reminding me of your little obsession... I almost forgot.

[5m4llP0X]

On the up side: Billy Bush (the moron who had the convo with Trump on the bus) has been suspended.

[Sapient]

-Quote Removed By Moderator-

Is she saying it was consensual when it happened but that she was drunk, therefore couldn't give consent?

[jdurand]

We have a culture (that is slowly changing) that constantly has women being sexually objectified pretty much everywhere, that has judges feeling okay with doling out minimal sentences to people who've committed sexual assault, that has politicians comfortable suggesting **** victims should have kept their legs closed, that protects sports stars and coaches who commit sexual assault, etc, etc, etc.

Just because people speak out against it, doesn't mean that we don't still live in a culture that too often tries to explain away, legitimize or lessen the seriousness of ****.

[5m4llP0X]

We have a culture (that is slowly changing) that constantly has women being sexually objectified pretty much everywhere,

With their consent.

that has judges feeling okay with doling out minimal sentences to people who've committed sexual assault,

Who has been forced to step aside on all future **** cases. Also: people, including law professors, are trying to get him fired.

that has politicians comfortable suggesting **** victims should have kept their legs closed, that protects sports stars and coaches who commit sexual assault, etc, etc, etc.

Victim blaming, while atrocious, isn't acceptance.

Just because people speak out against it, doesn't mean that we don't still live in a culture that too often tries to explain away, legitimize or lessen the seriousness of ****.

Just because people TRY to explain it away doesn't mean it's part of our culture. Also: victim blaming isn't 'legitimizing' it is blame shifting, though. But it does not mean they're trying to make it legitimate.

Also:

"In the last few years, there has been an unfortunate trend towards blaming '**** culture' for the extensive problem of sexual violence on campuses. While it is helpful to point out the systemic barriers to addressing the problem, it is important to not lose sight of a simple fact: **** is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime."