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Thread: Trolling a Feminist on T.V.

  1. #41
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muchacho NL View Post
    That is the most ridiculous thing you've said so far... and you've been saying really insane stuff, so that says a lot.
    You are not talking about a woman, but women. And thus my statement is a fact. Women overwhelmingly work less, educate less, etc less.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    You are not talking about a woman, but women. And thus my statement is a fact. Women overwhelmingly work less, educate less, etc less.
    So you are including all women, even those in repressive regimes in the middle east? Or just being your usual silly boy self? Women in the US probably educate more, like they do here. But they are still expected to (and social conditioning often has them "wanting" to) look after the kids by taking time off and doing twice the housework. Of course some of the most valuable "work" they do isn't paid at all, but you know, equality of opportunity, etc. doesn't even exist as a concept in your mind, and certainly not ahead of "man stuff priorities" so how would you understand it?
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    So you are including all women, even those in repressive regimes in the middle east? Or just being your usual silly boy self? Women in the US probably educate more, like they do here. But they are still expected to (and social conditioning often has them "wanting" to) look after the kids by taking time off and doing twice the housework. Of course some of the most valuable "work" they do isn't paid at all, but you know, equality of opportunity, etc. doesn't even exist as a concept in your mind, and certainly not ahead of "man stuff priorities" so how would you understand it?
    I am talking only about America, a country with a lot less government intervention into the market, as that will not skew the results. If I picked countries with massive government intervention into the market it would make women appear like armless and legless sacs of mass playing basketball game against NBA players.

    Women in the US currently make a larger portion of those going to school, but workers are more than just current college goers, and women more often pick easy, skill-lacking professions in school, like women's studies degrees, sociology degrees, and teaching degrees.

    Biology makes women want to care for their young. But there you go again hating science.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    like women's studies degrees, sociology degrees, and teaching degrees.
    I studied electrical engineering in the US, the girls there were few surly less than 10%, even in other engineering departments. not sure about medical and law schools.

    when pay is compared it should be about getting paid while doing the same job at the entry level of that job. but after that things changes, bonuses and yearly increments depends on the person and sometimes negotiation skills with the boss to get higher salary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  5. #45

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    Pretty sure the last time I read about this topic the margin of pay difference in the same fields/experience/education was <$.03. Don't really see a need to ***** about it because, you know, after a full year of working men will have made a whopping $62 more.
    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    o ya. i hope he goes back to it. i liked my name being in some1's sig

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    Pretty sure the last time I read about this topic the margin of pay difference in the same fields/experience/education was <$.03. Don't really see a need to ***** about it because, you know, after a full year of working men will have made a whopping $62 more.
    surly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender...7.25.22_number, but here it says "about 5 cents", which is not a big deal technically!

    There have been criticisms of the common gender pay gap slogans in the United States, in particular regarding the estimate that the average woman's earnings are approximately equivalent to 77–78% of the average man's. Noted Equity feministChristina Hoff Sommers has repeatedly criticized the estimate, describing it as a "wage gap myth". [89] [90] [91] According to Sommers, "when you control for relevant differences between men and women (occupations, college majors, length of time in workplace) the wage gap narrows to the point of vanishing". [89] She argues that "[t]he 23-cent gender pay gap is simply the difference between the average earnings of all men and women working full-time", but that "[i]t does not account for differences in occupations, positions, education, job tenure, or hours worked per week" between men and women workers. [90] When these factors are controlled, Sommers states that "the wage gap narrows to about five cents", but that "no one knows if the five cents is a result of discrimination or some other subtle, hard-to-measure difference between male and female workers". [90] Nevertheless, Sommers states that it is "demeaning" to women to imply "that they are manipulated into their life choices by forces beyond their control", which she considers "divorced from reality". [91]
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    surly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender...7.25.22_number, but here it says "about 5 cents", which is not a big deal technically!
    My point exactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    o ya. i hope he goes back to it. i liked my name being in some1's sig

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    My point exactly.
    and supported by equity feminist. period (full stop).
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  9. #49
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    Ah boys. Supreme confirmational bias examples. If you only count things YOU think matter, then of course YOUR version will exist in a believable space. But if you take into account all the issues such as unpaid work, historical gender skewing of occupational pay levels (yes, nurses should be paid a lot more than mechanics) and the bias (no, not open, implicit and unconscious in most cases) involved in setting pay levels and employing into senior positions, you could come to the conclusion that women should be paid more than men in a lot of instances, but hey we don't rule the world (yet).

    Anyway this is old and tired. We've walked this road before. You kiddies don't want to look outside your little playpen, so let's move on.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  10. #50

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    Sorry, didn't realize broadening my horizons meant I needed to become a manhater.
    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    o ya. i hope he goes back to it. i liked my name being in some1's sig

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    unpaid work
    That is called not work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    but hey we don't rule the world (yet).
    feminist woman, are you!
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    Sorry, didn't realize broadening my horizons meant I needed to become a manhater.
    Why would it? I'm not.

    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    That is called not work.
    That's probably the way those cotton plantation owners used to think too. No money changes hands, so it doesn't count.
    Last edited by Rokchick; 12-10-2016 at 12:13 PM.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    That's probably the way those cotton plantation owners used to think too. No money changes hands, so it doesn't count.
    Are you a slave? Slavery is still practiced quite frequently in places with massive government intervention (which you support fully).

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    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Oh for goodness sake. Why do I have to simplify everything so much. Even for trolls you should be wittier. Look at the words in caps.

    No woman should have to define herself in terms of how she is perceived by men. If any of you actually think that how a MAN thinks of her is anything in the top 1000 that your daughters need to concern themselves with then YOU are the problem. If she is a decent, capable person, then it DOES NOT MATTER what some random bloke might think of her. If she needs to worry about what the type of man you are finds desirable in ANY way, then YOU are the problem. She doesn't need to care. If she concerns herself with being a decent, capable person and not even 1 guy she meets wants to be with her, then she is mixing with totally the wrong types.

    So to simplify even further, defining your daughters worth by how men perceive her is the absolute epitome of sexism. Got it now?
    No, you make no sense. Don't you want your children to be happy, find someone to share their life with, grow old with?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  16. #56
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    Rok, how do feel about men not being treated equally? Never heard you speak about that, or do you not care because it doesn't affect you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Rok, how do feel about men not being treated equally? Never heard you speak about that, or do you not care because it doesn't affect you.
    you are asking a woman a liberal and a feminist. you won't get something similar to maternity leave.

    according to Sr. general Asmato leobnardilli equatilimos WOMen means Wrongdoings Of Men (and of course that guy doesn't exist)
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    I studied electrical engineering in the US, the girls there were few surly less than 10%, even in other engineering departments. not sure about medical and law schools.

    when pay is compared it should be about getting paid while doing the same job at the entry level of that job. but after that things changes, bonuses and yearly increments depends on the person and sometimes negotiation skills with the boss to get higher salary.
    We had 4 girls across BSEE, BSME, and BSCE.

    Most of the girls were going for nursing degrees.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Why would it? I'm not.
    I mean, you're saying that I'm narrow minded because I don't believe in your wage gap myth.
    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    o ya. i hope he goes back to it. i liked my name being in some1's sig

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Rok, how do feel about men not being treated equally? Never heard you speak about that, or do you not care because it doesn't affect you.
    Then you must have missed half of my posts. Of course I do. I have sons. Yes I think paternity leave is important. How on earth will we get actual equality without actual equality? The current issue is that there is a lot of historical social injustice (including you thinking women should care about their attractiveness to men). And that many historically female roles, like nursing and teaching, are not paid to the same level men's jobs are. Socially it is still more acceptable for girls to want "girls jobs" but that is just ongoing social inequality at work.

    And to try to clarify even more, although I think it's crystal already, my children will find mates and happiness if they are good, capable people. Anyone, male or female who tries to define themselves by how they seem to someone else is never going to be happy. Unless you have some psycho or social disorder, be yourself and care about your partner. But seriously blaze, if you think teaching your daughters how to be attractive to men is even worth considering, let alone doing, you are doing them a huge disservice. And the next generation is doomed already.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbstokem View Post
    I mean, you're saying that I'm narrow minded because I don't believe in your wage gap myth.
    What does that have to do with man hating?
    Last edited by Rokchick; 12-10-2016 at 09:37 PM.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Good and capable.. you mean desirable. Paternity leave shouldn't be a thing, that's stupid. I'm talking about in custody and support issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    She still thinks we're talking about solely physical attractiveness. Until she gets over that notion, this entire thread is just a broken ******* record. Round and round we go.
    Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Good and capable.. you mean desirable. Paternity leave shouldn't be a thing, that's stupid. I'm talking about in custody and support issues.
    No, I mean good and capable. If there are other good and capable people out there that they want to be with, then yay.
    Paternity leave is not stupid. How are men supposed to bond properly with their children, or allow their wives to go back to work without it? They could end up thinking their daughters should learn to be attractive to men as a priority instead of what's actually important to them.

    In custody and support issues there are a huge number of variables, but the most important one is what is best for the child. Both parents "feels" are secondary to this. Generally, the parent who has been doing the caring should continue to do it and the parent who has been providing the financial support should continue to do it. Because that is usually the least disruptive to the child. But there are lots of variations and having courts and support services set up specifically to determine what's best for the child seems a reasonable way to approach it.

    If you want me to say "men should have joint custody", then no. Not unless that is best for the child, and it usually isn't. But off you go and see what a heap of bitter MRA activists think instead. Most of them don't care as much about their children as they do about themselves. Some have very sad stories and have been badly treated by the system. But not as many as there are women badly treated by the system, simply because men usually have more options. And better lawyers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    She still thinks we're talking about solely physical attractiveness. Until she gets over that notion, this entire thread is just a broken ******* record. Round and round we go.
    No I'm not. I'm saying girls should not learn to be attractive to men in any way as a priority. In any way at all. What "men" think about them should never matter to them. If they find someone they love, they can care about that person.
    Last edited by Rokchick; 12-10-2016 at 10:06 PM.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  24. #64
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    You are simply trying to split hairs because you know you went overboard in your attempt to sexualize my use of the word desieable. A text wall isn't going to change that, so I didn't bother reading more then the first couple sentences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    You are simply trying to split hairs because you know you went overboard in your attempt to sexualize my use of the word desieable. A text wall isn't going to change that, so I didn't bother reading more then the first couple sentences.
    Oh for goodness sake dipstick, I was magnifying what you said. You said "how to be real women and desired by men". Own it! Because of course real women are totally defined by how MEN think about them. Do we get the reverse? Are you defined by what WOMEN think of you? Big trouble for you huh?
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Do we get the reverse? Are you defined by what WOMEN think of you? Big trouble for you huh?
    I can't speak for him, but I would say that what my female friends think of me is just as important to me as what my male friends think. Boys should be brought up in such a way that women are attracted to them, not on a sexual basis (but I've explained what I mean by that word multiple times, so...). But it sure as hell doesn't define me, or anyone else. That's putting words in his mouth and indicates a failure on your part to engage us honestly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    I can't speak for him, but I would say that what my female friends think of me is just as important to me as what my male friends think. Boys should be brought up in such a way that women are attracted to them, not on a sexual basis (but I've explained what I mean by that word multiple times, so...). But it sure as hell doesn't define me, or anyone else. That's putting words in his mouth and indicates a failure on your part to engage us honestly.
    LOL, so now now he didn't mean what he said? Boys should be brought up to be decent human beings. They should not define themselves by their attractiveness to anyone else. If THEY find someone they care about, then worry about that person. Trust me what you find attractive and what anyone I would want will find attractive will NOT be the same.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Trust me what you find attractive and what anyone I would want will find attractive will NOT be the same.
    People are different! If they are the same they will be like robots! or zombies! and life would be boring!

    you see, men and women don't fully understand each other, so the liberals and the conservatives, and you can go on and on... with different peoples and different groups!

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  29. #69
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    Where have either of us been trying to get other people to "define themselves" in any real sense of the term?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Trust me what you find attractive and what anyone I would want will find attractive will NOT be the same.
    Really, now? My list, off the top of my head:

    - Well-organized
    - Cares about others
    - Budgets
    - Ambitious, always going for the next higher step up
    - Does Kegels
    - Isn't fat

    Are any of those NOT on your list? (And yes, men can do kegels too)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    Where have either of us been trying to get other people to "define themselves" in any real sense of the term?



    Really, now? My list, off the top of my head:

    - Well-organized
    - Cares about others
    - Budgets
    - Ambitious, always going for the next higher step up
    - Does Kegels
    - Isn't fat

    Are any of those NOT on your list? (And yes, men can do kegels too)
    I know we can do kegels, cause I have lol. But what's the benefit*?

    Also, I found out, there are better exercises for women. Kegels only workout a specific region of muscles near the back. There are other workouts for the front and other areas.

    *Besides protecting against urine leakage and urinary incontinence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

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    I'm not going back on what I said, and I'm not going to let you try and spin what I said. You immediately sexualized what I said when it had nothing to do with sex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    All in all, I think I'd rather be respected by people than desired by men.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    All in all, I think I'd rather be respected by people than desired by men.
    ^^^.

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    So, if someone is desirable, they can't be respected, or if they are respected they are undesirable. Gotcha.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    All in all, I think I'd rather be respected by people than desired by men.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    ^^^.

    There is a third option for you two turbos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    So, if someone is desirable, they can't be respected, or if they are respected they are undesirable. Gotcha.
    How is this relevant? Meherrin said that the goal is to be respected. So if you're (respected & desired), you succeeded, because you're respected.

    But it's also possible to be (respected & not desired), which would also be OK according to Meherrin's line, since you're still respected.

    You can also be (desired & not respected), which would be bad as per this line of thought. (As would not respected & not desired.)

    In any case, the fact that you're pointing out does nothing to attack the idea that the goal in interpersonal relations is to be respected.

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    How is this relevant? Someone get me a lightbulb, this one is dim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    How is this relevant? Someone get me a lightbulb, this one is dim.
    It's relevant because you linked being desired by men as something to do with being a real woman. It's not. It's really, really not. Being respected by your parents, by your children, by your friends, by almost anyone is more important. Being desired (in your important non-sexualised way) by your friends is more important than your ranking with the amorphous "men". That matters not at all. And it should not ever be inferred or taught that it is, or should be. If there are men out there that think some trait that can be ranked on importance to all "men" is worth considering before all of those, then no, they don't deserve even a first meeting with my niece.

    Lurk showed it nicely. There is one point that most "real men" I know might agree with. The others are just minor issues and would be overcome by many others.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  39. #79
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Which is what I said at the very beginning, to be a desirable mate, you ignored all the positive things I pointed out that I found desirable in my wife, and you guys want to try and twist what I said into something else. Does your husband find you desirable?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Which is what I said at the very beginning, to be a desirable mate, you ignored all the positive things I pointed out that I found desirable in my wife, and you guys want to try and twist what I said into something else. Does your husband find you desirable?
    Stop trying to wriggle out of it. It was you that linked being desirable to men as the defining factor. Just agree with me that it is unimportant and you're home.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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