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Thread: Atheism

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rasputin View Post
    Please no... I'm tired of living now and I don't want to live another life. Too many problems and responsibilities.
    but in afterlife there is two option: hell and heaven, eternal sadness or eternal happiness. mathematically you have 50/50 chance, otherwise heaven is more likely probable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    but in afterlife there is two option: hell and heaven, eternal sadness or eternal happiness. mathematically you have 50/50 chance, otherwise heaven is more likely probable.
    Except Hell wasn't in the bible...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Except Hell wasn't in the bible...
    but .... https://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    The current president is an atheist.
    Obama is muslim.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Obama is muslim.
    Obama is infidel. If he go to ISIS/ISIL he will be beheaded like everyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    Obama is infidel. If he go to ISIS/ISIL he will be beheaded like everyone else.
    Lol. Go tell that to the Dearborn police department.

    Btw, you enjoying your blizzard?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    Obama is infidel. If he go to ISIS/ISIL he will be beheaded like everyone else.
    Obama created ISIS!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Lol. Go tell that to the Dearborn police department.

    Btw, you enjoying your blizzard?
    why, I left Michigan in 2012 to go back home I finished my degree long time ago!

    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Obama created ISIS!
    KSA helped ideologically with their extremism that is written in their books, and UK created KSA.

    and all are the puppets of the globalists!
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    why, I left Michigan in 2012 to go back home I finished my degree long time ago!



    KSA helped ideologically with their extremism that is written in their books, and UK created KSA.

    and all are the puppets of the globalists!
    Saudi Arabia was created by London wahabbis to rule middle east and buy cheap oil!

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    why, I left Michigan in 2012 to go back home I finished my degree long time ago!
    Where is home? And too bad, ISIL offering lots of jobs in US.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Yeah, I'd love there to be. But wants are far different than reality. And to believe in something because you want to reap the benefits is not true belief.
    I can respect this, and I don't feel it makes someone not an atheist because they want there to be more then death.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I can respect this, and I don't feel it makes someone not an atheist because they want there to be more then death.
    Than*

    No, I mean believing in Christian for fear of nothingness isn't genuine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  13. #53
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    I'm agnostic. By this I mean that on the big question ("does God exist,") I do not know the answer. I believe that this answer is the most intellectually honest position. For, unlike most facts, the existence of a higher power is a question that would require a person to step outside their frame of reference to verify. If you ask whether it is raining, I can use information I can verify to find the answer. If you ask about the existence of God, I cannot. Thus, as far as I know, I don't know.

    Now, there are many religions that I know *must* be false because they claim contradictions. (Religion can't be true if it claims both P and ~P, because both cannot be true in fact.) But this still leaves open the question of God. (Even if I showed that every religion known to man is false, I would not have demonstrated that God doesn't exist; I would only have demonstrated that every religion is false.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rasputin View Post
    Do you think atheists are being discriminated in society for not believing in God? I have heard stories from many people how they couldn't get a job because they were atheists. What is your take on that?
    No. Your potential employer has no right to ask your religious affiliation before hiring you. If they do, you should respectfully decline to answer, and pivot ask if they would be interested in talking about your qualifications for the job or some such. This isn't a question of skin color; if you don't say "I'm an atheist," no one will know.

    Now, do people express preferences for people who believe the same way they do on any number of issues? Yes, they do. Is that a bad thing? Probably. Should it be illegal? Eh... No. People should just be taught how to be better people better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Creep-er View Post
    If discrimination against atheists were truly prevalent, people would not have to keep their religious beliefs on the down low. At least, that's how I feel about my area, which is pretty metropolitan. I do hear about people making connections at interviews from being part of the same Christian fellowships, but that's no different from making a connection over some secular affiliation.
    QFT.

    I find most organized religions distasteful, but my distaste for the faith does not necessarily extend to the faithful.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    As athiests, would you like there to be an afterlife?
    Don't quite identify as atheist, but I'd say the answer is "it depends on the kind of afterlife." Is it eternal suffering? I'll pass. Is it just my consciousness free of my body, free to go wherever I want? Sign me up.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I can respect this, and I don't feel it makes someone not an atheist because they want there to be more then death.
    Why not?

    I don't reckon that you can choose your beliefs that way. You can't believe it isn't raining just because you want it to be a nice day. You can want it to be a nice day, but that's independent of your belief as to whether or not it is a nice day.

    So if someone is saying "I believe in God because I want there to be an afterlife," I suspect that this is either a tacit admission that they do not, in fact, believe in God, or that they believe in God for some other reason. That other reason could be closely related, though. "I can't imagine that the universe would be so depressing as to allow for fixed length consciousness, so I must believe in an afterlife. And to do that I must believe in a god." That's legal in logic. I don't see why the starting premise should be disallowed, as Sapient suggests in his response.

    I don't agree with the starting premise, but it's coherent.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valynor View Post
    In my own personal experience it's actually quite the opposite. I'm sure I've missed out on things for being a man of faith. I'm not sure what I believe in, but it's not order from chaos. I dont care what your personal beliefs are, as they are all essentially beliefs. But I've experienced atheism becoming far larger and more judgemental of late than religion.
    Baron d'Holbach and Drystan LoL. I miss them both.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Baron d'Holbach and Drystan LoL. I miss them both.
    I remember Baron, but not Drystan. Although that was weird for a moment since my real name is Trystan.

  16. #56

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    I feel like TB is the Uncle Tom when it comes to those nontheists. He's more than happy to throw us atheists under the bus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  17. #57
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Not sure what bus you mean.

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Not sure what bus you mean.
    I remember too keenly that anytime there was an religious argument on here, you loved to stand away from the atheists and profess how fringe and radical they were and militant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    I remember too keenly that anytime there was an religious argument on here, you loved to stand away from the atheists and profess how fringe and radical they were and militant.
    Oh?

    I'd think the forum would remember too, so I did a blanket search for all posts I have ever made with the word fragment "atheis" in it (to catch 'atheist' or 'atheism' or 'atheists,' etc), and came up with the following... (This touches all threads I'd posted in except one, since you didn't post in it, and obviously isn't every post in each thread, but is the guiding post that established why I was posting there in the first place, or best stated the beliefs I was trying to convey in the threads.)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    The same as my general reaction to all religion vs. thou-shalt-not-show-your-religion-in-public crew. That is, please go away.

    If you want to be atheist, fine, but don't force your beliefs on the Pledge. If you want to be religious, fine, but don't force your beliefs on the Pledge. That is, both groups shouldn't care how NBC broadcasts it, and should feel free to say the Pledge however they want.
    > 5 years ago
    > I was 17; still in high school
    > not even that aggressive.
    > equally aggressive against religious people as atheists.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    1) The Church will claim that action x is wrong
    2) Priests engage in x.
    3) The Church actively tolerates that its acolytes go against official moral doctrine in many cases.
    ~ Therefore the Church is a hypocritical organization.

    You may disagree with the argument for some reason or another, but it seems to me that they present a coherent case. You are right that they would also have to argue that business and other things are "corrupt" or "hypocritical," but they may very well be willing to do so.

    I would be.

    As for me; I think that the mission and even much of the religious doctrine of the Catholic Church is admirable. It is unfortunate when their people are less than their doctrine. It shines poorly on the many millions of Catholics who are righteous and good people.
    > 2013.
    > TB is arguing that criticism of religion ought to be in the right proportion.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    In the rest of your post:

    Let's leave reasons aside for the moment. You're going to contend that everyone who will hold violence as a last resort to problem solving is horrific? I agree with you -- I'm a pacifist -- but unless you're willing to admit that strikebreaking, all warfare, every form of defense, and everyone who even considers owning a firearm is "espousing violence," then your argument is not valid. You want to hold that people who are religious, but don't believe in willy-nilly violence, actually are espousing willy-nilly violence.

    Even if you do want to hold this, then it's not religion that you hate, it's violence.

    Well, I ask you, do you believe anything Freud ever wrote? Anything Darwin ever wrote? Anything Newton ever wrote? Let's stick with Newton. Newton got physics wrong. If you try to use Newtonian equations to figure out celestial motion, you'll get wrong answers. Does that invalidate calculus? Unless you're willing to hold that it does, you're not willing to say that a person can't partially agree with a single work.

    I agree that people who want to believe part of religious doctrines are straining credulity, but they're not necessarily irrational, nor evil, nor espousing violence. Again, you argument doesn't apply to the vast majority of casual "believers."

    This is the real nonsequitor. I'm saying that your argument does not apply to the vast majority of believers. Your response is that atheists are less violent than believers. I agree with you that religion has a net negative effect on human society, but you must see how any probabilistic argument will fail to touch all nonviolent believers.

    Unless you're willing to hold that Mother Theresa was in fact a horrible person, you should drop the hatred.

    I disagree with Mother Theresa on God. But she was still a great human being, and she still stood for peace and for love, if for reasons that I don't consider to be the "right" ones.
    > Or this one?
    > TB was correct on every count, (except, maybe, the historical picture of Mother Theresa) and,
    > Largely agrees with what he portrays as the 'atheist' perspective, but cautions against painting all believers with a single brush?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Sapient -- do you demand of TRW the belief in a religion that doesn't require faith? Your definition of religion is ... um, simply not correct. Are you looking for a religion that will require no "faith?"

    Also, only a Sith deals in absolutes.

    Not even the Catholics are Sith. I agree with you that religion is violent and a net negative in society, but far too many of your arguments are nonsequitors or strawmen. Your arguments have force only for the Sith -- for the fundamentalist -- so you struggle to show that all believers must believe the whole doctrine when, evidently, not all religious people are nutcase terrorists. You say that God killed the firstborns of Egypt? There are tons of moderates who will point out that Passover entails spilling wine in sorrow for that loss, and that killing there was a last resort. There are tons more who will not take the bible as literal history, but as fables.

    I say again, because I was ignored the first time. Religiously inspired, hidden, or spawned hatred or crime is bad, but so too is antireligiously inspired hatred. You hate the bible too much because you presume that it hates.
    > Again, just as harsh against religious believers as atheists.
    > Displays a distaste for violence whether that violence is inspired by religion, or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    Religious institutions have historically been the first to shelter good revolutionary movements. Or, movements that were revolutionary that I happen to think were also good.
    > Maybe this thread where this is my general thesis?

    I couldn't find any threads where I was trying to paint "atheists" as "fringe and radical and militant."

    In fact, it looks like in general, I have tried to avoid painting anyone, religious or nonreligious, with a single brush.

    However, I did find threads where you have used exactly the claim you just used to bully me into not responding any further to an otherwise friendly discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Literally every religion thread, he jumps up and attacks the atheists. He definitely bigoted against us. I guess in his eyes, we're all Richard Dawkins.
    So, I suppose it is up to the average forumgoer, then, to decide if I'm actually victimizing you, or if you're overreacting to a position that (1) disagrees with you, and (2) doesn't even do so in a way that is overly aggressive or unfair to you.

    On this thread, for example, where you thought it was necessary to bring up my "history" of broadsiding atheists when I had not, in fact, posted anything harsh against atheists on the thread about atheists. (Does this count as evidence against your belief that I hate atheists?)

    When I read my own posting history on the topic, I think I come across as someone who largely agrees with atheism/agnosticism over theism, but who is skeptical of some of the more overreaching claims I sometimes hear from atheists. I don't think it comes across as someone who hates atheists' guts.
    Last edited by The Burninator; 12-21-2016 at 11:13 PM.

  20. #60
    Consul Lurk's Avatar
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    TB, it is what it is. He's gay (therefore good at drama, so you really shouldn't be spending too much effort feeding him), white, male, and atheist. Therefore an underprivileged minority victim
    that the entire world is out to get.

    Qui tacet consentire videtur, ubi loqui debuit ac potuit.

    [7:32 AM] Jason (Al Bundy raidslave): Who the **** loses an arti to 18 phalanx
    [7:32 AM] Old Timer US1: The same faction that loses one to 66 legos

  21. #61

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    TB's gay too, Lurk, so you can't pull that card.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  22. #62

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    Maybe you said in FB chat or on skype, TB.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  23. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    TB's gay too, Lurk, so you can't pull that card.
    Lurk confessed to a 'gay episode' once or twice on the forums.

  24. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Lurk confessed to a 'gay episode' once or twice on the forums.
    Lurk's sitting on his high horse cause he's only bisexual. Like you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  25. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Lurk's sitting on his high horse cause he's only bisexual. Like you.
    I'm not bi.

  26. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    I'm not bi.
    Suuuuure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  27. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Suuuuure.
    Nope, never.

    giiiiiirrrrrrrrl
    Last edited by Summer; 12-22-2016 at 01:24 AM.

  28. #68
    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Saudi Arabia was created by London wahabbis to rule middle east and buy cheap oil!
    no, that was long time ago , search for St John (Sheikh Abdullah) Philby

    he was the major UK spy who lived there with the saudi and then he became most influential, when he saw UK falling he said to the king switch to the USA, and his son was in a major position in UK intelligence, he was a double agent and ran to the Soviets, the intelligence agencies people...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Where is home? And too bad, ISIL offering lots of jobs in US.
    somewhere not far from those beheaders
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    As athiests, would you like there to be an afterlife?
    Not really. I think we should live our lives as if there isn't regardless. Atheist and religious. All we leave behind are memories, so make them decent ones.
    Of course, if you mean, in an ideal fantasy world, would I want..... Then I'd say - no afterlife, but a delayed current life might be good. As in; instead of dying at 90, live to 80, and sleep for 100 years 10 times, then wake for a year. That would be better. It would also make those in power care a bit more about what sort of world they are creating.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  30. #70
    Artisan Eric Rasputin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    but in afterlife there is two option: hell and heaven, eternal sadness or eternal happiness. mathematically you have 50/50 chance, otherwise heaven is more likely probable.
    Why do you have to limit afterlife to hell and heaven. What if it is something that we don't know about. What if it's just another world and we live there as celestial bodies free of everything in our past lives.

    Broaden your mind. Don't limit yourself to just the bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Evil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Aw, you shouldn't have.
    Don't you have a hole to die in?

  31. #71
    Consul Sirveri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Burninator View Post
    I'm agnostic. By this I mean that on the big question ("does God exist,") I do not know the answer. I believe that this answer is the most intellectually honest position.
    No, you're an Atheist. Just admit it.

    Otherwise tell me which God you believe in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
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  32. #72
    Artisan Eric Rasputin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirveri View Post
    No, you're an Atheist. Just admit it.

    Otherwise tell me which God you believe in.
    Do you think that agnostic's are fake and that they have to believe in something or someone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Evil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Aw, you shouldn't have.
    Don't you have a hole to die in?

  33. #73
    Consul Sirveri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rasputin View Post
    Do you think that agnostic's are fake and that they have to believe in something or someone?
    Not at all. It's simply a matter of apples and oranges. Agnostic is the anti version of Gnostic, or knowledge. Theism deals with belief in God, if you believe in a God(s) then you are a theist. If you don't then you are an atheist. Agnosticism has nothing to do with it because it's not on the same discussion level. It's like asking which sport a person likes to play, and then they say they really enjoy watching basketball. They might both be about sports, but one question is not the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
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  34. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirveri View Post
    Not at all. It's simply a matter of apples and oranges. Agnostic is the anti version of Gnostic, or knowledge. Theism deals with belief in God, if you believe in a God(s) then you are a theist. If you don't then you are an atheist. Agnosticism has nothing to do with it because it's not on the same discussion level. It's like asking which sport a person likes to play, and then they say they really enjoy watching basketball. They might both be about sports, but one question is not the other.
    I've always interpreted agnosticism as the belief that there is a higher power, or at least something greater, but merely with the caveat that one doesn't know what that higher power is. That's differing from theism, in which you believe you know which higher power is the correct one, and atheism in which you don't believe in one at all. All of them are still in the same train of thinking.

    That may not be the literal definition, but I believe it to be the conventional one.

  35. #75
    Consul Sirveri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valynor View Post
    I've always interpreted agnosticism as the belief that there is a higher power, or at least something greater, but merely with the caveat that one doesn't know what that higher power is. That's differing from theism, in which you believe you know which higher power is the correct one, and atheism in which you don't believe in one at all. All of them are still in the same train of thinking.

    That may not be the literal definition, but I believe it to be the conventional one.
    So which God does the Agnostic in that situation believe in? If the answer is not 'this one' then how can they be a theist?

    Agnostic Theists do exist, they are people who are questioning their faith.
    Agnostic Atheists are the much more common one, they don't know if God exists or not, and don't subscribe to any God.

    Then there are the Gnostics, those who know, Practicing religious members and militant atheists would fall under that category.

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  36. #76
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirveri View Post
    No, you're an Atheist. Just admit it.

    Otherwise tell me which God you believe in.
    If your definition of "atheist" is that I do not identify a particular God or pantheon that I believe in, then by your definition I'm an atheist.

    I just don't think most people will roll with the way you defined the terms just there. Changes the discussion frame from how most people see it, I think.

    Q: is there a God?
    A: (atheist) No.
    A: (theist) yes, he's like this <story>.
    A: (agnostic) I really don't know.

    Asking if there's a higher power is like asking me what the exact location and momentum of an electron is. Maybe these exact values exist, but I am not really a being that is equipped to obtain that kind of information about the universe.

    I think that's a distinct position from atheism, Sirv. Why am I wrong? Why should I regard this as the same as someone who says "there is no God"?

  37. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Not really. I think we should live our lives as if there isn't regardless. Atheist and religious. All we leave behind are memories, so make them decent ones.
    Of course, if you mean, in an ideal fantasy world, would I want..... Then I'd say - no afterlife, but a delayed current life might be good. As in; instead of dying at 90, live to 80, and sleep for 100 years 10 times, then wake for a year. That would be better. It would also make those in power care a bit more about what sort of world they are creating.
    I would like an afterlife like the enlightenment in Stargate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  38. #78
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    I would like an afterlife like the enlightenment in Stargate.
    Sign me up for this as well.

    Be nice if the Ancients didn't impose so many of their own rules on it, though. And the Ori weren't around

  39. #79
    Philosopher н-υ-п-т-ε-я's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rasputin View Post
    Why do you have to limit afterlife to hell and heaven ... Broaden your mind. Don't limit yourself to just the bible.
    I don't limit hell and heaven to be limited only to reward and punishment of some levels, I believe it would be multi-dimensional physical psychological spiritual places. I think everyone will experience a different degrees of heaven and hell according to deeds and believes. and I don't think that it is explainable to current human mind since it is from a different level. It is complicated!

    and I never read the bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

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    Artisan Eric Rasputin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by н-υ-п-т-ε-я View Post
    I don't limit hell and heaven to be limited only to reward and punishment of some levels, I believe it would be multi-dimensional physical psychological spiritual places. I think everyone will experience a different degrees of heaven and hell according to deeds and believes. and I don't think that it is explainable to current human mind since it is from a different level. It is complicated!

    and I never read the bible.
    If you yourself cannot comprehend what you're thinking, how is it valid? You sure you haven't lost your mind?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Evil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Aw, you shouldn't have.
    Don't you have a hole to die in?

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