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Thread: US last two presidents

  1. #81
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    what the CIA and FBI says
    The CIA and FBI said Russia tampered with vote tallies?

  2. #82
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Still waiting on the conspiracy link Rok. Had you said Clinton conspired to fix the primary race against Sanders, you would have had something to back it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    The CIA and FBI said Russia tampered with vote tallies?
    No, not after they were lodged. But they tampered with them (e.g. in Blazins head) before they were.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    No
    Must hurt to admit that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    No, not after they were lodged. But they tampered with them (e.g. in Blazins head) before they were.
    you lefties are always at the opposite side of the right!

    let Putin himself teach you about the dirty hand democrats!

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    No, not after they were lodged. But they tampered with them (e.g. in Blazins head) before they were.
    Lmao, I sure hope you are pretty Rok, because you aren't very smart. Can you cook?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Lmao, I sure hope you are pretty Rok, because you aren't very smart. Can you cook?


    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Lmao, I sure hope you are pretty Rok, because you aren't very smart. Can you cook?
    I've never had to. But of course I can. Quite well too. I hope you can...... do whatever men are supposed to be good at. What is that again?
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    I've never had to. But of course I can. Quite well too. I hope you can...... do whatever men are supposed to be good at. What is that again?
    Everything else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    Are you actually going to argue that because Jesus, while he was on earth, did not say "Homosexuality is wrong and abortion is wrong" that he did not believe the teachings of the Bible? Or that Christians should only follow his exact words, not anything that came before it or after it?

    And are you really going to argue that the bible doesn't argue for the right to life for those not yet born? Sheesh, I know you're liberal but at least lower your pretentiousness to a level where you don't think you know more about the bible than everyone else, especially people who actually read it daily.
    Previous to the 1960's the religious right was perfectly OK with abortion, I suspect because it was the opposite position of the papists. Further there are passages from the bible that state that life begins with first breath, not conception. Finally there is some evidence in Mathew that Jesus was OK with homosexual relationships.

    But you already know all this, because everyone on the forum has already told you all this, at which point you'll push the goal posts and gish gallop all over the place. So I'm going to go ahead and refuse to participate further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
    There is some serious misquoting potential above.
    The rep system should be abolished.

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    Are you actually going to argue that because Jesus, while he was on earth, did not say "Homosexuality is wrong and abortion is wrong" that he did not believe the teachings of the Bible? Or that Christians should only follow his exact words, not anything that came before it or after it?

    And are you really going to argue that the bible doesn't argue for the right to life for those not yet born? Sheesh, I know you're liberal but at least lower your pretentiousness to a level where you don't think you know more about the bible than everyone else, especially people who actually read it daily.
    It depends on the branch of Christianity.

    Consistency is not an inherent attribute of Christianity, Christians have debated and fought over the true meaning of God, Jesus, and the religion itself.

    Abortion wasn't a major political issue in ancient Roman Judea, neither was gay marriage so one can only ponder. As for the old testament being relevent to Christianity - not so much, Jesus formed his own branch of Judaism, he changed Judaism entirely by allowing anyone into the faith as long as they believed in God. This is contrary to the old testament's God of intervention and protecting God's chosen people - or punishing them. Jesus preached charity, salvation, and forgiveness. The Jewish reactionaries veiwed Jesus as a devient that was perverting their strict adherence to the old testament.

    So if we were to debate Jesus's feelings on gay marriage, it would be worth it to consider Jesus' underlying message of love, forgiveness, and acceptance. Jesus lived among the social outcasts and protected prostitutes from being killed. Jesus forgave people of sins that the old testament held to be unforgivable, thus making Jesus teachings i.e. Christianity a major change from the morals of the old testament.

    To put it in a simple way: The old testament laid out the rules for the jewish religion, Jesus born a jew preached fundamental changes (no longer was the religion a birthright, and a loosening of interpretation of sins), this angered the strict adherents of the old testament and the reactionaries helped to have Jesus crucified.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Everything else.
    Damn, you are sooo predictable. I guess that one was too easy though it did boost my points marginally. I had cofc as equal 1st choice, and really, I hate it when I link the 2 of you on replies. I'm going with he didn't log in on time or he would have.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  13. #93

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    This essay was the afterward from one Orson Scott Card’s books.
    I thought that from the way this discussion seems to be going, that this essay would illustrate another point of view, and may allow for additional dialogue that hopefully will be less hostile

    http://www.hatrack.com/osc/articles/...fterword.shtml

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luisss View Post
    Many scholars, including atheists, do not argue that there was not a man in history named Jesus in that time period. What is usually debated is whether or not he was actually "The Savior" or performed any miracles.

    You can argue that he would not be a Republican, but given his positions on gay rights, abortion, etc. he would not be accepted in today's Democratic Party either.

    I consider myself a christian conservative, and I do not think I lack compassion and caring for those in need. I live in the South Side of Providence - our unemployment is over 10% still, our crime rate is the highest in the state, we have far too many homeless, and we've been under Democratic control for 80 years. From my perspective, it is those in power that tend to abuse those who do not have power, regardless of party - that is why I fight to help the Republican Party in Rhode Island and why I want to limit the government's role in our life rather than expand it.
    No wonder he didn't elected.

    Doesn't look like your stump speech got you far. If you want to limit governments role how will you help the homeless? Lower the crime rate? Or even have an opinion on gay rights or abortion?

    A limited government should not have an impact on those social issues. But then, what is the point of even having a government?

    Believe what you want, however you should allow others to believe what they want also. You do seem to be comparing Jesus to Bernie Sanders. I mean he's not a republican and wasn't accepted in today's Democratic Party either. But what do I know? I cook for a living.

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    Quote Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
    This essay was the afterward from one Orson Scott Card’s books.
    I thought that from the way this discussion seems to be going, that this essay would illustrate another point of view, and may allow for additional dialogue that hopefully will be less hostile

    http://www.hatrack.com/osc/articles/...fterword.shtml
    Introducing Orson Svott Card's perspectives onto a discussion touching on homosexuality is hardly likely to encourage "additional dialogue that eill hopefully be less hostile."

    After all, Card has said that any government that redefines marriage to include unions between persons of the same sex shoukd be destroyed. (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...ge.html?pg=all)
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Damn, you are sooo predictable. I guess that one was too easy though it did boost my points marginally. I had cofc as equal 1st choice, and really, I hate it when I link the 2 of you on replies. I'm going with he didn't log in on time or he would have.
    If Martha Stewart dies, you ladies won't even have cooking. Just saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
    This essay was the afterward from one Orson Scott Card’s books.
    I thought that from the way this discussion seems to be going, that this essay would illustrate another point of view, and may allow for additional dialogue that hopefully will be less hostile

    http://www.hatrack.com/osc/articles/...fterword.shtml
    Who TF are you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    If Martha Stewart dies, you ladies won't even have cooking. Just saying.
    There's Rachel Ray.

    Or even Giada.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    There's Rachel Ray.

    Or even Giada.
    Isn't Gordon Ramsay's daughter -Matilda- cooking too?

    He sent her to the kitchen!
    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna
    That whose existence is necessary must necessarily be one essence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumi
    What you are seeking is also seeking you.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    There's Rachel Ray.

    Or even Giada.
    Yeah.. No. Are you trolling?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  21. #101
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    Also, had no idea you two were ladies, good to know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  22. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Yeah.. No. Are you trolling?
    I don't know, you?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Also, had no idea you two were ladies, good to know.
    Don't get your hopes up. Even though I could out cook your wife.

  23. #103

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    The main point I think Orson Scott Card was trying to say in this specific essay was that if we listen, really actively listen to each other that we may find that that have more in common with each other than we otherwise would like to believe.

    I do not believe in this science fiction writer’s religious views. I also do not believe in anyone should have the power to decide what I do with my own body, this includes wearing seat belts, protective helmets, abortions, who we love and anything else that should be my decision alone to make


    Ps. To The Blazin1, what a rude way to ask if I have an identity. Silly goose, of course I have an identity. I have been around Travian for over 9 years, so there are many folks that know me.

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
    .... I also do not believe in anyone should have the power to decide what I do with my own body, this includes wearing seat belts, protective helmets, abortions, who we love and anything else that should be my decision alone to make.....
    So can I assume you also don't want to use any of the medical facilities the government provides?
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  25. #105

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    What I am saying, is that I believe it all should be my decision and not a governments decision
    I should also be able to deny any and all medical care if I so choose
    If a hand is reached out to me and I choose to or not to accept, that should be right as well
    but that is assuming that a hand is reached out in the first place. But without prior proof of the ability to pay, I doubt one would be offered anyway

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
    What I am saying, is that I believe it all should be my decision and not a governments decision
    I should also be able to deny any and all medical care if I so choose
    If a hand is reached out to me and I choose to or not to accept, that should be right as well
    but that is assuming that a hand is reached out in the first place. But without prior proof of the ability to pay, I doubt one would be offered anyway
    It's a broader question than that. But all libertarian answers are simplistic. If you choose not to wear a helmet when your governing bodies through experts assigned, have determined that it reduces the risks of damage, are you prepared to forfeit your rights to use the hospitals that your governing bodies provide or fund? My point is that you live in a functioning society, made possible by your government. No matter how you feel about them. If you don't want any part of it, fine, go live in an area where the rules suit you (but be aware that it probably won't have any medical, educational, energy or transport infrastructure). Otherwise, suck it up sunshine. Vote instead.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  27. #107

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    Did you just insult me?
    Did you just determine that just because some government decides what they consider is best for me that it should override my ability to choose what I believe is right for me? As long as I place no one else in danger, then my choice should be paramount.

    And yes I would forfeit all medical care. There is already a note on the dash of my car in case of a collision to reflect my wishes – no medical care. I cannot afford anymore medical debt. I still have years of paying off my late husband’s medical bills, and I refuse to accept any more, even to save my own life.

    These are my choices, and they should be respected.

  28. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    Introducing Orson Svott Card's perspectives onto a discussion touching on homosexuality is hardly likely to encourage "additional dialogue that eill hopefully be less hostile."

    After all, Card has said that any government that redefines marriage to include unions between persons of the same sex shoukd be destroyed. (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...ge.html?pg=all)
    Although I disagree with Scott Card on gay marriage. It's worth it to give him a carte blanche on perspective, in the link, Card writes about the polarization in the American conscious which has truth to it. In the piece he writes how the two prevelent ideologies in the America work to shun and discredit on basis on opinion, he also mentions a diversity in opinions i.e. one may be pro-international intervention, anti-gay marriage, pro-choice, and for greater gun restrictions for instance and not being in-line with partisan thought could get oneself discredited and shunned. On this issue of a polarized climate of political thought in the America, and arguably abroad in Europe as well, Card is correct on this issue, regardless of his reactionary views on marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
    Did you just insult me?
    Did you just determine that just because some government decides what they consider is best for me that it should override my ability to choose what I believe is right for me? As long as I place no one else in danger, then my choice should be paramount.

    And yes I would forfeit all medical care. There is already a note on the dash of my car in case of a collision to reflect my wishes – no medical care. I cannot afford anymore medical debt. I still have years of paying off my late husband’s medical bills, and I refuse to accept any more, even to save my own life.

    These are my choices, and they should be respected.
    What about my wishes to live in a civilized society? one where I would pay into a system so others in my nation would not have to be burdened by medical debt and choose death over debt. Your opposition to a civilized government forces me to live in society where medical care is a luxury and not a right.
    Last edited by Summer; 12-31-2016 at 06:37 AM.

  29. #109

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    Thank you Summer, for actually reading the essay and understanding the points he was trying to make. I obviously did a horrible job of it

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  31. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    It's a broader question than that. But all libertarian answers are simplistic. If you choose not to wear a helmet when your governing bodies through experts assigned, have determined that it reduces the risks of damage, are you prepared to forfeit your rights to use the hospitals that your governing bodies provide or fund? My point is that you live in a functioning society, made possible by your government. No matter how you feel about them. If you don't want any part of it, fine, go live in an area where the rules suit you (but be aware that it probably won't have any medical, educational, energy or transport infrastructure). Otherwise, suck it up sunshine. Vote instead.
    I'm very uncomfortable with this argument, as it implies the restriction of government/social services to those who are deemed "worthy" of receiving them. Which leads us to the question of what kinds of situations/behaviour should result in people being refused services, who is authorised to make such decisions, and so on.

    I don't want to be part of a society that would refuse services to someone because of choices they've made, poor decisions, lack of knowledge, human frailty, moral judgements, etc.

    In short, if True Blue doesn't wear a seatbelt and is in an accident, I still want them to get health care on the same terms as everyone else - and because I live in a society where health care is not dependent on whether you can pay for it either, that wouldn't add to True Blue's debt.
    Last edited by Meherrin; 12-31-2016 at 11:34 AM.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meherrin View Post
    I'm very uncomfortable with this argument, as it implies the restriction of government/social services to those who are deemed "worthy" of receiving them. Which leads us to the question of what kinds of situations/behaviour should result in people being refused services, who is authorised to make such decisions, and so on.

    I don't want to be part of a society that would refuse services to someone because of choices they've made, poor decisions, lack of knowledge, human frailty, moral judgements, etc.

    In short, if True Blue doesn't wear a seatbelt and is in an accident, I still want them to get health care on the same terms as everyone else - and because I live in a society where health care is not dependent on whether you can pay for it either, that wouldn't add to True Blue's debt.
    Neither am I really. I'm just pointing out how one sided their stance is. I am however onside with our current stance here of restricting one of the optional payments to parents who vaccinate their kids. It's not really enough because it only matters to those who need it it most. The rich parents still get to send their little infection bombs out.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    I don't know, you?



    Don't get your hopes up. Even though I could out cook your wife.
    How do you know? Although, if it's true, I'm not going to tell her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
    The main point I think Orson Scott Card was trying to say in this specific essay was that if we listen, really actively listen to each other that we may find that that have more in common with each other than we otherwise would like to believe.

    I do not believe in this science fiction writer’s religious views. I also do not believe in anyone should have the power to decide what I do with my own body, this includes wearing seat belts, protective helmets, abortions, who we love and anything else that should be my decision alone to make


    Ps. To The Blazin1, what a rude way to ask if I have an identity. Silly goose, of course I have an identity. I have been around Travian for over 9 years, so there are many folks that know me.
    I don't care what you identify as, I'm not the judgemental one on these forums. Use any bathroom you like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    How do you know? Although, if it's true, I'm not going to tell her.
    Because? Poor thing, if she thinks her value to you is her cooking.

    /enter the outrage pants brigade
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  36. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Because? Poor thing, if she thinks her value to you is her cooking.

    /enter the outrage pants brigade
    Because why would he unnecessarily comment to his wife that someone is a better cook? There are obviously better cooks out there, but why beg the question? Needless drama
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Because why would he unnecessarily comment to his wife that someone is a better cook? There are obviously better cooks out there, but why beg the question? Needless drama
    Damn, Sap. I didn't pick you to pull the pants on.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    Because? Poor thing, if she thinks her value to you is her cooking.

    /enter the outrage pants brigade
    Why would I hurt my wife's feelings? I'm sorry you are in a relationship that has caused you to think that's normal behavior in a husband. It really isn't, and not all men are like that Rok.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Why would I hurt my wife's feelings? I'm sorry you are in a relationship that has caused you to think that's normal behavior in a husband. It really isn't, and not all men are like that Rok.
    I've heard that about Australian men, probably why their women love our sailors so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshyyy View Post
    There is some serious misquoting potential above.
    The rep system should be abolished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    Why would I hurt my wife's feelings? I'm sorry you are in a relationship that has caused you to think that's normal behavior in a husband. It really isn't, and not all men are like that Rok.
    Why wouldn't you tell her? I really don't think not telling your wife something is normal behavior at all. That would be you doing it.
    Sirv, your sailors do go down a treat here. Mostly the black versions though. It's the exotic factor.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

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