Obama... Putin... Trump...

[н-υ-п-т-ε-я]

Obama expels 35 Russian diplomats in retaliation for US election hacking

The Obama administration on Thursday announced its retaliation for Russian efforts to interfere with the US presidential election, ordering sweeping new sanctions that included the expulsion of 35 Russians.

Putin: Russia won't expel US diplomats

Russian President Vladimir Putin said Friday that Moscow will not expel American diplomats in response to US sanctions against Russia.

Putin said he would not pursue "irresponsible 'kitchen' diplomacy" and would instead attempt to rebuild relations with Washington after the inauguration of US President-elect Donald Trump.

Trump praises 'very smart' Putin for not expelling US diplomats

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Putin: Russia will not expel anyone in response to US sanctions

“We will not forbid families and children from spending the New Year’s holidays at the places they are used to. Moreover, I invite the children of all American diplomats with accreditation in Russia to New Year’s and Christmas festivities in the Kremlin,” the Russian president said.

So Putin has just ignored "expired" Obama and said he is going to deal with Trump. And the classic Putin "trolling" he instead invited US Diplomat children for the Kremlin festivals

[Sapient]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...stinks-w458439

[Rokchick]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...stinks-w458439

Yeah, it's probably just that all the agencies are getting faint at the thought of one oligarch getting pally and training up the new boy. Given that it could conceivably start WW3, I don't really blame them. Might be easier to give donnie pretend codes and make sure they have the military heads briefed up to not do anything too stupid on his command.

[Sapient]

I feel like it's more like the WMD with Iraq.

[Rokchick]

Except it's too small a response instead of too large. it could just be that Obama doesn't want to start a war just yet.
Either way, Vlad is laughing all the way to his rapidly emptying, but about to be refilled, bank!

[The Blazin1]

Start a war just yet? The guy has lacked testicular fortitude since the beginning, Michelle wears the balls in that family. The sanctions are a result of the democrats losing the election, they need a scapegoat. All the talk about Donald accepting the election results, railing about him saying the fix was in, now look at them. The democrats are freaking babies, thinking they are entitled to something else. It's laughable, it really is, and you would have to be a moron to think otherwise.

[н-υ-п-т-ε-я]

Start a war just yet? The guy has lacked testicular fortitude since the beginning, Michelle wears the balls in that family. The sanctions are a result of the democrats losing the election, they need a scapegoat. All the talk about Donald accepting the election results, railing about him saying the fix was in, now look at them. The democrats are freaking babies, thinking they are entitled to something else. It's laughable, it really is,and you would have to be a moron to think otherwise.

or a brainwashed sheep

[The Burninator]

Yeah, it's probably just that all the agencies are getting faint at the thought of one oligarch getting pally and training up the new boy. Given that it could conceivably start WW3, I don't really blame them. Might be easier to give donnie pretend codes and make sure they have the military heads briefed up to not do anything too stupid on his command.

It is a good, reasonable question whether the nukes go off if the president uses the nuclear football to order it. I think it's 50/50 for any president.

I'm also of the opinion that the thing to do is make the Russians believe that we'd fire back, but if they nuked us, to not fire back.

50% of the world surviving is better than 0%.

But anyway, what do ex military people think? If the order came through to fire ze missiles, would it be followed? Or would people disregard it or think it was a mistake?

[н-υ-п-т-ε-я]

I'm also of the opinion that the thing to do is make the Russians believe that we'd fire back, but if they nuked us, to not fire back.

50% of the world surviving is better than 0%.

no with nuclear war probably ... the northern hemisphere almost extinct, and the southern hemisphere mostly survive, or at least Africa since no much army bases to target there.

Then we start evolution once again to go to another nuclear war in couple hundred thousand year.

[Sapient]

It is a good, reasonable question whether the nukes go off if the president uses the nuclear football to order it. I think it's 50/50 for any president.

I'm also of the opinion that the thing to do is make the Russians believe that we'd fire back, but if they nuked us, to not fire back.

50% of the world surviving is better than 0%.

But anyway, what do ex military people think? If the order came through to fire ze missiles, would it be followed? Or would people disregard it or think it was a mistake?

Mad dog and British politician lady said it best. It's not a deterrent if you won't push the button. And talk is easily discerned from action.

Also, it would definitely be followed. You don't know brainwashed military types.

[Sirveri]

But anyway, what do ex military people think? If the order came through to fire ze missiles, would it be followed? Or would people disregard it or think it was a mistake?

It would be followed, though it may not be followed 100%. There might be some that would ask for confirmation, however I doubt any of them would just outright disregard it. We actually had a guy who was asked by the CO if he would prevent a missile launch because of a comment he made.

[The Burninator]

Mad dog and British politician lady said it best. It's not a deterrent if you won't push the button. And talk is easily discerned from action.

Also, it would definitely be followed. You don't know brainwashed military types.

It would be followed, though it may not be followed 100%. There might be some that would ask for confirmation, however I doubt any of them would just outright disregard it. We actually had a guy who was asked by the CO if he would prevent a missile launch because of a comment he made.

Well they never know if you'll do it until they do it. So there are no actions to judge by until and unless they press the button. (And they say the same of us -- both the US and Russia have said that they will never be nuclear first strike.)

But I am sad to hear you both say it would be followed! Even in the '50's and '60's I think people generally would have assumed receipt of the order was a mistake and asked for confirmation. And the standing rules, as far as I know, require soldiers to not follow orders to commit war crimes. (It's hard to see how use of nuclear weapons would fail to constitute a war crime, imo.) And the real point that you'd rather only one side be utterly demolished by nuclear strikes than both sides!

In conclusion, damn the scientists for choosing to tell their political leaders in the '40's that they'd built the thing in the first place!

[н-υ-п-т-ε-я]

In conclusion, damn the scientists for choosing to tell their political leaders in the '40's that they'd built the thing in the first place!

Never fund a crazy scientist ever.

[Rokchick]

Start a war just yet? The guy has lacked testicular fortitude since the beginning, Michelle wears the balls in that family. The sanctions are a result of the democrats losing the election, they need a scapegoat. All the talk about Donald accepting the election results, railing about him saying the fix was in, now look at them. The democrats are freaking babies, thinking they are entitled to something else. It's laughable, it really is, and you would have to be a moron to think otherwise.

Interesting take on it. You insult him by questioning his manhood for not killing enough people? And sure some dems are offended by the outcome. So am I. My reason for questioning it is slightly different though. I don't think the american people should be the only ones who get to vote on who wields so much international power. Certainly not anymore. Now that you have shown your complete disregard for civil society and common sense, you need an international veto! Racism? Who cares? Rational response? Who cares? Sexual abuse? Who cares?

Mind you, I've said this before, but my husband is quite happy about the current situation. The US losing it's place in the world can't come soon enough for him.

[cofc]

You insult him by questioning his manhood for not killing enough people?

I don't think the american people should be the only ones who get to vote on who wields so much international power.

Racism? Who cares?

Rational response? Who cares?

Sexual abuse? Who cares?

The US losing it's place in the world can't come soon enough for him.

Obama killed more than Dubya though...

You supported more international power since at least January 20th, 2009.

You have supported "racism" since at least January 20th, 2009.

You have supported irrational responses, like droning American citizens, since at least January 20th, 2009.

You have supported sexual abuse since at least January 20th, 1993.

Now you admit Obama caused the U.S. to lose its place in the world? Haha, only took 8 years of a terrible president.

[Sirveri]

But I am sad to hear you both say it would be followed!

Are you surprised? Humans like to follow orders when they're in tribal mode. Also getting an order like that tends to toss people into an 'oh ****' mode where they stop thinking and start moving. Which is another thing they teach in the military, just do something don't stand still, otherwise you freeze in combat and die.

[cofc]

Are you surprised? Humans like to follow orders when they're in tribal mode. Also getting an order like that tends to toss people into an 'oh ****' mode where they stop thinking and start moving. Which is another thing they teach in the military, just do something don't stand still, otherwise you freeze in combat and die.

They get paid specifically to do it. Easily one of the worst "arguments" that can be made.

[Rokchick]

They get paid specifically to do it. Easily one of the worst "arguments" that can be made.

They don't get paid to commit war crimes.

Obama killed more than Dubya though...

You supported more international power since at least January 20th, 2009.

You have supported "racism" since at least January 20th, 2009.

You have supported irrational responses, like droning American citizens, since at least January 20th, 2009.

You have supported sexual abuse since at least January 20th, 1993.

Now you admit Obama caused the U.S. to lose its place in the world? Haha, only took 8 years of a terrible president.

You live in a strange little world of distortion.

[cofc]

They don't get paid to commit war crimes.

I live in a strange little world of distortion.

You do not know what a war crime is.

Indeed.

[Rokchick]

You do not know what a war crime is.

Indeed.

So if Donnie gets annoyed with Vlad after he catches him kissing someone else and sends the order to nuke Russia , should they do it?

[The Blazin1]

So if Donnie gets annoyed with Vlad after he catches him kissing someone else and sends the order to nuke Russia , should they do it?

Do you ever use examples that make sense?

[cofc]

So if Donnie gets annoyed with Vlad after he catches him kissing Hillary

Trump would consider that normal, and would not get annoyed.

[н-υ-п-т-ε-я]

It really seems that the liberals brainwashing is working: "Trump is a punk who would hit the nuclear button ASAP for any problem"

come on ... at least use your mind ... the ones asking for war is the democrats with their lies about Russian government hacking and interfering with election results, because they want war with Russia... and to cover up their failure in election (president/house/senate) and avert the people from what was in those released wikileaks emails!

[Rokchick]

Do you ever use examples that make sense?

Why do you kiddies need everything spelled out in large letters?
OK, Vlad gets into bed with the chinese over the south china sea. China goes chest beaty and threatens to sink the US destroyers on patrol. Vlad says "yep, I'm in, we'll sink a few too and put our missile defense onto it".
Trump is faced with his 2 biggest threats combining and sinking his ships. He goes for the button. Do they do it?

[The Blazin1]

Why do you kiddies need everything spelled out in large letters?
OK, Vlad gets into bed with the chinese over the south china sea. China goes chest beaty and threatens to sink the US destroyers on patrol. Vlad says "yep, I'm in, we'll sink a few too and put our missile defense onto it".
Trump is faced with his 2 biggest threats combining and sinking his ships. He goes for the button. Do they do it?

I don't talk to liars.

[н-υ-п-т-ε-я]

Hello... I'm crazy... I really am

fixed

[Rokchick]

I don't talk to liars.

You mean you don't have an answer you are comfortable giving.

[cofc]

china and russia

Wishcasting that China and Russia would start a war against the U.S. is wishcasting squared. China needs the U.S. way more than the U.S. needs China.

[The Blazin1]

You mean you don't have an answer you are comfortable giving.

No, I mean you a liar.

[Rokchick]

China needs the U.S. way more than the U.S. needs China.

Which century are you living in? Oh you mean China holds so much of the US debt (over a trillion) that it needs the US to stay afloat to keep value? Here's a hint sunshine, china doesn't care in the slightest. It holds the debt to buffer its economy and stop the massive trade surpluses causing inflation at home. If china thought it could get the south china sea by dumping the entire lot tomorrow, it would. I'm not sure if you noticed, but china has and could just pull its head in and wait out any amount of turmoil internationally. That's one of the benefits of not being democratic.

I'm not saying russia and china will decide to defend what china thinks is rightfully its own territory (see there ya go putting a very ethnocentric view on a complex international issue - to them, it wouldn't be them starting a war, it would be you by not withdrawing your ships from it's territory). But if it happened, would you expect the guys with the power to follow donnies command and make it nuclear? They would be killing hundreds of thousands directly and many, many millions indirectly. Including possibly their own families.

Just answer the question. If you can.

[cofc]

China holds so much of the US debt (over a trillion) that it needs the US to stay afloat to keep value?

would you expect the guys with the power to follow donnies command and make it nuclear?

They hold a whopping five percent of U.S. debt?

The hawk running in this election was Clinton.

[Rokchick]

They hold a whopping five percent of U.S. debt?

The hawk running in this election was Clinton.

And you think 7% doesn't matter? LOL.

So? Answer the question. She wasn't the one waving the nuke banner. But even if it had been her, should they follow the order?

[cofc]

And you think 7% doesn't matter?

should they follow the order?

Drop in the bucket. If the U.S. chooses to default China won't do a thing.

Nobody has to follow Clinton. Again, Trump was never the hawk.

[Rokchick]

Drop in the bucket. If the U.S. chooses to default China won't do a thing.

Nobody has to follow Clinton. Again, Trump was never the hawk.

Now it's just boring. You obviously don't understand economics at all, let alone international relations.

So just go straight to the question. Should they release the nukes if ordered to by the president if they think its on flimsy ground? Simple question. A yes or no will suffice.

[cofc]

Now it's just boring. You obviously don't understand economics at all, let alone international relations.

So just go straight to the question. Should they release the nukes if ordered to by the president if they think its on flimsy ground? Simple question. A yes or no will suffice.

If you knew anything about economics you would not be a leftist.

I do not understand why you are attributing Clinton's hawkishness to Trump.

[The Blazin1]

Rok claims no one here understands, but she read 5% as 7.. just going to point that out.

[Rokchick]

Rok claims no one here understands, but she read 5% as 7.. just going to point that out.

Just going to point out that the 7 is probably more accurate (depending on how much is dumped this week). Hence my use of it. I thought that more civil than bombarding someone with links and calling him wrong in a discussion where the absolute level doesn't matter. But even 5 is huge and can easily bring nations down economically. 2 can do it if wielded acutely.

But really, if anyone here thinks the US can default on bonds without consequence, put your hands up and go to the idiot corner.

[The Blazin1]

I'm willing to trade California for our debt.

[н-υ-п-т-ε-я]

I'm willing to trade California for our debt.

So you will trade democrats for more conservative government.

55 electoral votes ... gone

U.S. house: 39 Dems gone along with 14 Reps.

State Senate: 16 Dems gone along with 4 Reps.

But will you do it as calexist?

Or give them to Mexico and let them build the wall?

[The Blazin1]

Cali won't last long without the rest of the country to protect it. Canada or Mexico will annex the state.