View Poll Results: Are you for or against the draft?

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  • For it.

    0 0%
  • Against it.

    8 61.54%
  • Only in extreme circumstances, like being invaded

    2 15.38%
  • Mom

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Thread: Curious

  1. #1

    Default Curious

    Are you for or against the draft?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  2. #2
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Are you for or against the draft?
    I do not support any state regulation.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by cofc View Post
    I do not support any state regulation.
    Vote in the damn poll.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  4. #4
    Senator ECH0's Avatar
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    Although I like a man in uniform I don't want one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    We learnt ... from [Kimmie]!
    Quote Originally Posted by FA Belladonna View Post
    Kurtz, the horse is dead, please stop beating it.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECH0 View Post
    Although I like a man in uniform I don't want one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  6. #6
    Philosopher cofc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Vote in the damn poll.
    I do not believe I have ever voted in any poll on here.

  7. #7

    Default

    So, there's a first for everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  8. #8
    Senator ECH0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    I should clarify. It's a uniform I don't want.

    Didn't say anything about not wanting a man in one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    We learnt ... from [Kimmie]!
    Quote Originally Posted by FA Belladonna View Post
    Kurtz, the horse is dead, please stop beating it.

  9. #9

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    If we were being invaded then yes.

  10. #10
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foley View Post
    If we were being invaded then yes.
    So you are willing to draft people to save your own way of life, but against it to save others. Telling, quite telling.
    Last edited by The Blazin1; 05-30-2017 at 03:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    So you are willing to draft people to save your own way of life, but against it save others. Telling, quite telling.
    America First? Right bro?

    Anyways if we were being invaded wouldnt you like everyone ready to fight back invaders? Or do we just let them take over?

  12. #12
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    I wouldn't have to be drafted to fight back. I am not alone. I will fight for Summer, for you, for cofc, flossie, TB, MK, DC... hell, I would fight for rok and SC for the same liberty and freedom; despite our differences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  13. #13
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I wouldn't have to be drafted to fight back. I am not alone. I will fight for Summer, for you, for cofc, flossie, TB, MK, DC... hell, I would fight for rok and SC for the same liberty and freedom; despite our differences.
    Blaze if you ever were in a position where you could put yourself at risk, and someone else at risk too (the person you'd be defending me from) to save me, I'd ask you not to do it. Or at least to seriously consider not doing it. [EDIT: you should understand that I cannot honestly say that I would do the same for you (or anyone else on the list) in all circumstances. Probably some circumstances. But not all, for sure.]

    I do wish I could +10 your post though.
    Last edited by The Burninator; 05-30-2017 at 04:12 AM.

  14. #14
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    You know, a sane person doesn't want to take a life. That being said, a sane person will not sit by and let someone take that righteous life, because they will take another; where does that end unless you remove the insane.
    I realize most of you consider me an uneducated, racist redneck, and I encourage it. I firmly believe right is right and wrong is wrong. I might actually surprise you in real life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  15. #15
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    You know, a sane person doesn't want to take a life. That being said, a sane person will not sit by and let someone take that righteous life, because they will take another; where does that end unless you remove the insane.
    I realize most of you consider me an uneducated, racist redneck, and I encourage it. I firmly believe right is right and wrong is wrong. I might actually surprise you in real life.
    You're touching on one of the most damaging cases against a lot of my beliefs. They're selfish, in a way. I wouldn't want to hurt someone else to save someone. And why? Because if I did, I'd have to do something wrong, which is to say, I'd have to hurt someone. So in a way, I'm valuing my own morals more than I'm valuing the person I'd have to save.

    I less abstract terms, if I had to hurt someone to save you from them attacking you, I'm hesitant because I think hurting your attacker would be wrong, but it seems like I'm valuing my own "clean hands" more than I'm valuing your well being in that case. That's bad -- you're absolutely right in that regard.

    And I'm unsure what I want to say in my own defense. Am I wrong? Maybe. Am I insane though? I don't think that. I don't have the benefit of the certainty you seem to have about what you'd do. I'm honestly not sure. So in a way, I respect your certainty that you'd risk yourself defend even people who have at times shown you disrespect. (Because that's something I can't honestly say I would do.)

    Anyway this is just me explaining why I want to +10 your posts here. I don't mean to text wall.

  16. #16
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    The best point I have to make I guess is, if you sit by and let someone hurt/kill me, can you sit by and let them do it to someone else. At what point do you take action? Can you live with yourself if you dont? I can't abide by that at all. Yes, I voted Trump, but if I have to fight for you dumaz liberals.... let's just remember I'm a redneck and have enough guns to make a proper showing of myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  17. #17
    Consul The Burninator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    The best point I have to make I guess is, if you sit by and let someone hurt/kill me, can you sit by and let them do it to someone else. At what point do you take action? Can you live with yourself if you dont? I can't abide by that at all. Yes, I voted Trump, but if I have to fight for you dumaz liberals.... let's just remember I'm a redneck and have enough guns to make a proper showing of myself.
    It's definitely a "damned if I do damned if I don't" situation Blaze and I honestly don't know what I'd do or when I'd act. You're right that it would be awful to allow an innocent to be harmed by an unjust attack and that failure to stop it means more situations with more unjust attacks. In my view I'm also damned if I act though, if my action harms the other person (since doing that is also wrong). Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

    I can say that it doesn't matter to me that you voted for Trump in this case. We disagree but you're still just as valuable as a human being. I'd hesitate to save Meherrin if it required risk of harming others, and I rarely disagree with her (she's my favorite!).

    So, I see your point, and don't know how to answer or what I would do. It would depend on the specifics of the situation. How bad is the exact circumstance if I don't act? How sure am I that my action will be effective? How much harm do I have to do to save the person I'm trying to save? I can't say for sure what I'd do if those things were different in different cases.

    Hopefully I never have to find out what I'd do! Hopefully such a situation never arises. But yeah, I definitely respect your certainty on the issue, because I lack that certainty.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    The best point I have to make I guess is, if you sit by and let someone hurt/kill me, can you sit by and let them do it to someone else. At what point do you take action? Can you live with yourself if you dont? I can't abide by that at all.
    I tend to ascribe to a DRSABCD approach to such situations. If I can't manage the danger or the risk I simply can't waltz in and put myself in that situation as it would only exacerbate the issue. What I will do is whatever action I can perform without putting myself, or others, in undue danger.

    For instance, given my small stature, I'm not about to personally intervene in a physical altercation as I'll only make the issue worse for whoever has to then come in afterwards. What I will do is respond and send for appropriate help who can then manage the situation far better than I ever could. If this means I'm relegated to first aid and bearing evidence as a witness then that is what I'll do.

    In another situation, such as a being the first person at the scene of a fire, I'll respond in a way that is in line with my training. I.e. assume control of the incident, report to Firecomm and follow RECEO (Rescue, exposures, containment, extinguishment, overhaul).
    The difference in this situation from the first is the level of training and subsequently reduced risk (i.e. the danger is reduced to a level I can act).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  19. #19

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    I voted no since, warfare has changed. Modern warfare with satellites, bombs, special operations, is able to target precise blows to opposition. War between major technological nations would probably lead to missiles being lobbed at each other to point where both sides are assured to lose.

    Conscription was common throughout human history when large armies determined victory and safety, nowadays, ground troops are used more for 'peacekeeping' or otherwise policing. And policing is more effective with local troops and international cooperation. Should the USA police regions such as Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria? It's a tough question, not policing allows ISIS and the Taliban to florish, and policing with ground troops is expensive and puts soldiers at risk, it also portrays American troops as occupiers, so there is no winning scenario.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    You know, a sane person doesn't want to take a life. That being said, a sane person will not sit by and let someone take that righteous life, because they will take another; where does that end unless you remove the insane.
    I realize most of you consider me an uneducated, racist redneck, and I encourage it. I firmly believe right is right and wrong is wrong. I might actually surprise you in real life.
    You know, we never grabbed that beer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    I voted no since, warfare has changed. Modern warfare with satellites, bombs, special operations, is able to target precise blows to opposition. War between major technological nations would probably lead to missiles being lobbed at each other to point where both sides are assured to lose.

    Conscription was common throughout human history when large armies determined victory and safety, nowadays, ground troops are used more for 'peacekeeping' or otherwise policing. And policing is more effective with local troops and international cooperation. Should the USA police regions such as Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria? It's a tough question, not policing allows ISIS and the Taliban to florish, and policing with ground troops is expensive and puts soldiers at risk, it also portrays American troops as occupiers, so there is no winning scenario.
    Interesting. So you don't support the draft, but you demean those who also don't support it and choose to dodge it. Very telling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    *Sigh*, I'm such an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    I'm not very bright.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Interesting. So you don't support the draft, but you demean those who also don't support it and choose to dodge it. Very telling.
    Was this a gotcha question?

    Donald Trump received 4 deferments during the Vietnam war, 3 were college deferments and one was because he was deemed physically unfit.

    Did Donald Trump march against the Veitnam War? did he sing 'give peace a chance' was he a left-wing anti-war hippie? If he was, then I would praise him. But, Donald Trump likey did what he always does, find loopholes to save himself from harm.

    Many Americans were drafted and faced with punishment if they did not report to duty. Most who did end up in combat were overwhelming poor, urban blacks, latinos, and rural whites. Middle class and wealthy class whites knew enough of how to effectively dodge the draft.

    It's upsetting that many poor Americans were drafted and died in Veitnam, it's also upsetting that Donald Trump was given an oppurtunity to avoid the draft, due to him being in a upper class. The heroic thing for Trump to do would be to place himself in the same circumstance as his fellow Americans. Like Muhammed Ali did, Ali did not seek a deferment, and when Ali was drafted he objected, saying 'no Veitnamese ever called me ******.' Ali said that if it was a just war he'd sign up 'tomorrow' but he didn't feel it right to contribute to killing abroad. Trump didn't seem to dodge for ideological reasons, but instead for more selfish reasons.
    Last edited by Summer; 05-30-2017 at 05:28 AM.

  23. #23
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    "How sure am I that my action will be effective" ~TB
    "Given my small stature" ~ SC
    The great American equalizer boys, but know it, and use it justly.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  24. #24
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    You know, we never grabbed that beer.
    No, we didn't. When you head back to the Carolinas, let me know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  25. #25
    Consul Rokchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Interesting. So you don't support the draft, but you demean those who also don't support it and choose to dodge it. Very telling.
    I don't support the draft, but I wouldn't dodge it. I would, however, help my sons to dodge if they were called up and were prepared to dodge. That was the position of many during most draft periods in recent years. I have a lot of respect for those who volunteer, and it is them I want defending me, not someone dragged in unwillingly. I doubt Australia will ever use the draft again.

    If you are referring to the orange dodger, then it is reasonable to demean HIM for dodging, given his supreme hypocrisy and recorded comments.
    I'm glad I'm not judgemental like all you smug, superficial idiots

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blazin1 View Post
    "How sure am I that my action will be effective" ~TB
    "Given my small stature" ~ SC
    The great American equalizer boys, but know it, and use it justly.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol
    You say that as if it is a solution by itself. Waving a weapon around doesn't do anything if it is obvious I don't know how to use it. All it does is give the other person time to draw theirs.

    Again, risk management. I'm not trained for the situation so I will provide aid where the risks are more manageable and I'm less likely to cause further incident through my actions.

    It's why I provided 2 different examples in my above.
    I doubt many people here have experience with fire as I do and as such I don't expect them to expose themselves to the same hazards I would. (Difference between risk and hazard.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

  27. #27

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    I do not support the draft. I do support people who are willing to place themselves in harm's way to defend others. I do not support governments who risk the lives of these people for politics, for profit, for posturing on the world's stage.

    At a personal level, you don;t know if you will place yourself at risk to help another until that circumstance happens. Sometimes you surprise yourself, one way or the other.

    When I was younger, I studied martial arts as a means of self defense. I never knew whether I would actually be able to use those skills until I was confronted, once by a person who physically assaulted me and expressed his intention to **** me, and once when I saw someone else being assaulted. I was surprised by the way my body responded automatically as it had been trained. I'm glad I only had to use those skills twice.

    I don't believe that any country should initiate offensive military actions. But I do think that the minimum necessary force for self defence, or defence of another, is justified. And I mean minimum. In the first case, I broke the hold that my attacker had on me, tripped him, and ran like hell. In the second case, I got physically between the attacker and the victim (I'm tall, and back then I was strong and rather, well, Amazonian), blocked his blows, yelled at her to run, and told him to get the hell away from us or he would regret it. I was lucky, I guess, he ran. But I think I could have continued defending myself had he not. Or found a way to get the hell out myself.
    Last edited by Meherrin; 05-30-2017 at 12:15 PM.
    And now I'll tell you what's against us, an art that's lived for centuries. Go through the years and you will find what's blackened all of history. Against us is the law with its immensity of strength and power - against us is the law! Police know how to make a man a guilty or an innocent. Against us is the power of police! The shameless lies that men have told will ever more be paid in gold - against us is the power of the gold! Against us is racial hatred and the simple fact that we are poor.
    - The Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Joan Baez

  28. #28
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokchick View Post
    I don't support the draft, but I wouldn't dodge it. I would, however, help my sons to dodge if they were called up and were prepared to dodge. That was the position of many during most draft periods in recent years. I have a lot of respect for those who volunteer, and it is them I want defending me, not someone dragged in unwillingly. I doubt Australia will ever use the draft again.

    If you are referring to the orange dodger, then it is reasonable to demean HIM for dodging, given his supreme hypocrisy and recorded comments.
    Talk about hypocrisy. This is it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  29. #29
    Consul The Blazin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
    You say that as if it is a solution by itself. Waving a weapon around doesn't do anything if it is obvious I don't know how to use it. All it does is give the other person time to draw theirs.

    Again, risk management. I'm not trained for the situation so I will provide aid where the risks are more manageable and I'm less likely to cause further incident through my actions.

    It's why I provided 2 different examples in my above.
    I doubt many people here have experience with fire as I do and as such I don't expect them to expose themselves to the same hazards I would. (Difference between risk and hazard.)
    I said quite clearly, "know it." In other words, learn how it works, learn how to use it, learn how to shoot it safely. As far as risk management goes, if you are using that weapon justly, the risk will manage itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    You should quote yourself. It's like liking your Facebook status or high-fiving yourself in the mirror.

    It's what I would do if I didn't have to keep mine exactly how it is for madsquirrels and erazer.

  30. #30

    Scarecrow's Avatar
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    That is fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonothan Crane
    Patients suffering delusional episodes often focus their paranoia on an external tormentor. Usually one conforming to Jungian archetypes. In this case, a scarecrow.

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