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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bustrbladr77 View Post
    im still a kid (13), and i can honestly say that it has never bothered me one bit that humans as a whole eat animals. its just the way it was meant to be. it doesnt even matter if you believe in creation or evolution, either way it is fuel and we require fuel to live. vegetables are also a fuel.

    animals do not have controlled thoughts, or intelligence that exceeds an IQ of about 50. they can function to self-sustain themselves, but other than that do not have the capability to feel the same emotions, or share the same quality of life that we as humans enjoy. we are the superior beings, and that is the way it is.
    The animals we eat are aware enough to feel pain and fear. That doesn't mean we can't eat them, but out of respect we should take precautions to ensure they are kept and slaughtered humanely.


    global warming: i see this as a problem that is the fault of both me AND you, as well as every other person who uses petroleum/fossil fuels/ gases for energy. even when you purchase foods, the packages they are kept in contain chemicals, petroleum, and other harmful ingredients that irritate nature. people are already on the verge of fixing this predicament however, and i think its a little over-inflated. it is not as severe as extremists would have you believe, but i do not deny that it exists.
    If by extremists do you mean the postdoctoral science majors who have been warning us for years? I'll take their word over spokesmen from the petro-chemical companies thank you very much.

    recession: that is a topic that i dont want to discuss right now, only because this is an online forum, no one will take my argument seriously. all i will say is that the ORIGINAL mindset of republicans was the right path for economy. democrats also were fine, until they created Social Welfare. they tried to merge capitalism(basically you have the very rich, and the vary poor, with a good middle class) with socialism (an epic fail used by many other countries, they wonder why they fail so epically and need our help. it involves sending money to your government, then they divide it among the people).

    if you really want to discuss our economic situation, please feel free to send me a private message
    George Dubya has been hailed as the worst president your country has ever had. The legacy he handed down to Obama (for which Obama is taking a lot of flak for) is one of a ruined economy and terrible international relations. Do you honestly believe John McBush and Bible Spice could be doing any better?
    Last edited by Acehole; 08-08-2009 at 12:31 AM.
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  2. #42
    Merchant Captainbigsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie View Post
    Actually, we don't control foreign medias. That publicity is accepted, we don't have the choice =\
    Yes, and so the argument goes: "Does it really make a difference?"


    As for PETA: I've seen pamphlets from other organizations that show inhumane treatment of chickens, pigs, etc. - to the point where such treatment is illegal. I imagine that these are the pictures that they spam at people all the time. The vast majority of farms are legal (though I would say that the conditions on many "legal" farms are still deplorable, and we need a higher standard).

    For example, did you know that the average chicken you eat goes from hatching to butchered in 39 days? They are bred to grow quickly, and in many cases, they grow so quickly that their legs cannot support them; their legs either break, or are lame. They are crammed into such close quarters that they get ammonia burns on their legs (which is why whole chickens in the supermarket have their legs cut off at the knee, so you can't see the burn on the skin).

    People should see it; it should be on the news. I'm against all targeting of children by any media though.
    ~Cap

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captainbigsticks View Post
    Yes, and so the argument goes: "Does it really make a difference?"
    Yes. At least here.

    Why ? Cause 90% of people here speak french ( and most children speak ONLY french) and foreign channels are in english.

  4. #44

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    So advertising a toy would be bad?

    Im trying to understand what your saying, not argueing with you XD.
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  5. #45
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    Has anybody considered the possibility that people at PETA are simply doing this sarcastically? Half jokingly? Just for publicity?

    I think it could actually work pretty well- just last week my 7 year old sister finally made the connection between the cute of animals she saw and the food on the dinner table and threw a fit. God knows how bad it would have been if she was looking at a picture of a knife wielding Ronald MacDonald at the time.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadlyfox View Post
    So advertising a toy would be bad?

    Im trying to understand what your saying, not argueing with you XD.
    Yes, it's illegal actually.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acehole View Post
    Lemme guess, you change the channel everytime you see a segment on global warming or the recession on TV? Would you rather PETA giftwraps their message to make it a little less offensive? I'm sorry that the unspeakable suffering of millions of chickens upsets your kids.
    yes, i would like it to be gift wrapped. The better way you explain things the better you get your point across. IF somebody shoves a dead picture of mutliated chickens with blood and guts in your face your gonna tell them to get the **** away from me. If you came up 2 me and asked me if you could show me where the food comes from and how poorly the animals are treated most people would think about it rationaly. I would still tell you to get **** away from me though. But thats me.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirwolfric View Post
    yes, i would like it to be gift wrapped. The better way you explain things the better you get your point across. IF somebody shoves a dead picture of mutliated chickens with blood and guts in your face your gonna tell them to get the **** away from me. If you came up 2 me and asked me if you could show me where the food comes from and how poorly the animals are treated most people would think about it rationaly. I would still tell you to get **** away from me though. But thats me.

    Would an interpretive dance suffice?
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acehole View Post
    Would an interpretive dance suffice?
    lol, if you do a dance while your beating the crap out chickens.
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  10. #50
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    Unhappy

    I've been a vegetarian for roughly two and a half years but I've never respected or agreed with a thing the corporation PETA has done. Honestly look at this:

    "An official report from People for The Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) shows that the animal rights group put to death more than 97 percent of the dogs, cats, and other pets it took in for adoption in 2006. During that year, the well-known animal rights group managed to find adoptive homes for just 12 pets. The non-profit Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) is calling on PETA to either end its hypocritical angel-of-death program, or stop its senseless condemnation of Americans who believe it's perfectly ethical to use animals for food, clothing, and critical medical research.

    Not counting animals PETA held only temporarily in its spay-neuter program, the organization took in 3,061 "companion animals" in 2006, of which it killed 2,981. According to Virginia's Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (VDACS), the average euthanasia rate for humane societies in the state was just 34.7 percent in 2006. PETA killed 97.4 percent of the animals it took in. The organization filed its 2006 report this month, nine months after the VDACS deadline of March 31, 2007."

    "Ethical Treatment" for animals does not include saving them from one bad living condition only to ensure they don't ever see another living condition. To save an animal from a horrible life is admirable yes, but to not even attempt to find that animal a home and instead simply euthanize it is horrible.
    "...everywhere, all over the world, hundreds or thousands of millions of people just like this, people ignorant of one another's existence, held apart by walls of hatred and lies, and yet almost exactly the same--people who had never learned to think but were storing up in their hearts and bellies and muscles the power that would one day overturn the world."

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    wtf?
    Sapient - Check out the link. It's on the first page if it didn't quote correctly.

  12. #52

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    Peta is also losing many members each year because of how Their radical ideas are getting worse and worse.
    They are also one of the few Charity or support groups that are rated a 1.
    Expecting life to treat you well because you are a good person is like expecting an angry bull not to charge because you are a vegetarian

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Who_I_Am View Post
    Sapient - Check out the link. It's on the first page if it didn't quote correctly.
    No, it quoted perfectly, i was questioning why they would put that into a childs box...I know i played Halo and other fighting games when i was younger, but give me a break, real pictures!?!
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  14. #54
    Merchant Captainbigsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie View Post
    Yes. At least here.

    Why ? Cause 90% of people here speak french ( and most children speak ONLY french) and foreign channels are in english.
    It would be nice to see the US put a little bit of censorship from the US regarding advertising, particularly advertising aimed at children and advertising pharmeceuticals; then the rest of us could actually follow Quebec's lead on this and have it be somewhat effective.
    ~Cap

  15. #55
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    Default Oh Wow

    Erm, for once I am glad that the UK has laws preventing this sorta thing, under the Human rights and Politically correct red tape, theres something that actually done some good.

    I think that while PETA seem to think they are actually doing something worthwhile, they are in fact turning public opinion against them, which in fact means that by alienating parents, the children wouldn't listen to anything like that either, as they mostly follow their parents examples.

    On the note that PETA are trying to indoctrinate* children, it should be outlawed; I would hate for my 6 or 11 year old brothers to get things like that shoved in their faces, that would upset them dramaticlly, causing me to show the person who done it my example of "The Undertakers Choke Slam"*

    I think the more ethical question is why does the US Government allow them to continue this?
    Afterall, they are potentionally saying to Voters, "We support PETA showing your children images of dead chickens in the production process for McNuggets, but its okay, because we run the country."

    Just my 50 pence's worth.

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  16. #56
    Villager Crutches's Avatar
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    Though I adhore the way my chickens are raised and slaughterd, I do love their taste.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acehole View Post
    While their methods may seem a little extreme it definately puts an exclamation mark on the message. If Mcdonald's feels that they are victims of slander they are within their rights to sue PETA...except that PETA is telling the truth.

    @Marie: I guess we had better report all the other fast food companies, the toy manufacturers and tobacco companies to name a few for targeting children with their advertising.

    @sirwolfric: If you have a problem with people exercising their right to free speech in a way that offends you then perhaps you would be better off living in North Korea or China. Also, children need to be educated in a way that will make them remember where their food comes from so they can make an informed decision as to whether or not they want to eat it. They will not associate chemical and fat laden food and unspeakable suffering if it is given to them in bright packaging by a man in a clown suit.

    @INYOURCRANNY: See above, you had better go after Mcdonald's as well if you want to play on an even field, as well as any clothing company that uses scantily clad female models in their advertising. Hypocrite much?
    These people are exercising their right to free speech as well - sort of an ironic argument to claim PETA (a non-citizen since it's an organization) has a right to free speech but that anyone disagreeing doesn't, dont you think?

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonepaw View Post
    These people are exercising their right to free speech as well - sort of an ironic argument to claim PETA (a non-citizen since it's an organization) has a right to free speech but that anyone disagreeing doesn't, dont you think?

    Ironically I was making the exact opposite claim against sirwolfric, which you would see if you bothered to read the post I was replying to.
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  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonepaw View Post
    These people are exercising their right to free speech as well - sort of an ironic argument to claim PETA (a non-citizen since it's an organization) has a right to free speech but that anyone disagreeing doesn't, dont you think?
    Their criminal actions (arson, breaking and entering, vandalism, etc.) do not count as free speech, though. Also, free speech or not, the kind of material they are handing out (in particular, the pictures of mutilated chickens) is not appropriate to be giving to young children.

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acehole View Post
    The animals we eat are aware enough to feel pain and fear. That doesn't mean we can't eat them, but out of respect we should take precautions to ensure they are kept and slaughtered humanely.
    If keeping them humanely means the meat is better quality and the quality to cost increase is fine, then sure. If keeping them humanely doesn't increase the meat quality and just means increased costs, screw it.

    --

    Quote Originally Posted by Captainbigsticks View Post
    It would be nice to see the US put a little bit of censorship from the US regarding advertising, particularly advertising aimed at children and advertising pharmeceuticals; then the rest of us could actually follow Quebec's lead on this and have it be somewhat effective.
    Children advertising is fine. There is no reason we should be establishing laws to replace parenting. Parents these days try too hard to be their kid's friend rather than parent and don't want to say no.

    I partially agree with pharmaceutical limits, but not how you may think. The doctor is the ultimate end all, be all for medications. I believe pharmas shouldn't be allowed to market to doctors.
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  21. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    If keeping them humanely means the meat is better quality and the quality to cost increase is fine, then sure. If keeping them humanely doesn't increase the meat quality and just means increased costs, screw it.
    I disagree, because I believe in personal responsibility. To me, "personal responsibility" involves being mindful of the pain you cause to others.
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  22. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifforo View Post
    I disagree, because I believe in personal responsibility. To me, "personal responsibility" involves being mindful of the pain you cause to others.
    I don't lose any sleep when I eat veal.

    Scrumptious veal... so tender... mmmm.
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  23. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirwolfric View Post
    http://www.slashfood.com/2009/08/07/...targeting-kids

    ANybody ever else feel like punching everybody in PETA in the face. ITs ridicoulious the thingst hey do. TO target children is stupid. THere going 2 forget it anyways plus it scares them. Everbody in PETA deserves to watch a thousand chickens get slaughtered right in front of there eyes
    In response to the OP:

    It would probably be less frightening and more educational to target slightly older children and have them play this:

    http://www.addictinggames.com/burgertycoon.html


    Strategy for winning, courtesy of the game's forums:

    Pause the game. Get two fields with genetically modified soy, and three fields with three cows each. Add growth hormones to the feed in the feedlot. Hire one burger maker and one cashier. Corrupt a health officer. Start the game. Don't kill sick cows; you have a corrupt health officer. After a few months, those nine cows will go to the feedlot, and eventually they will reach 1000 pounds and be slaughtered. A month or two after this happens, do the following: corrupt a nutritionist, initiate the food pyramid and children want burgers marketing campaigns, and fully staff the restaurant. After a few years, fertility will get low on the grazing fields. After the cows mature and are sent to the feedlot, sell the fields when they are around 54% fertility, and purchase the other three fields and put three cows on each. Keep rotating, as the fertility will slowly be restored to fields you sell, and the environmentalists will come after you if fertility goes below 50%. Periodically reward/discipline unhappy employees and fire them if they stay angry. Every once in a while, check with the board for your relations with the various groups, and corrupt a politician for a few months to keep organized labor and the anti-globalization movement off your back when they start to get upset. If you are going to be AFK, just plow the rainforest and get some grazing fields with one cow each. You might need to corrupt a climatologist for a while after doing this.
    Last edited by Tifforo; 08-10-2009 at 04:55 PM.
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  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acehole View Post
    I could say the same thing about Mcdonald's for directly targeting your kids with food that is likely to cause obesity and diabetes
    It's just because people are on the computer or watching TV too much or whatever.. I mean, how is it McDonald's fault that someone doesn't exercise or whatever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tifforo View Post
    In response to the OP:

    It would probably be less frightening and more educational to target slightly older children and have them play this:

    http://www.addictinggames.com/burgertycoon.html
    That was too hard man..
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  25. #65
    Merchant Captainbigsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    If keeping them humanely means the meat is better quality and the quality to cost increase is fine, then sure. If keeping them humanely doesn't increase the meat quality and just means increased costs, screw it.
    Treating them humanely increases the quality noticeably, both nutritionally and in regards to flavour.

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma
    Children advertising is fine. There is no reason we should be establishing laws to replace parenting. Parents these days try too hard to be their kid's friend rather than parent and don't want to say no.

    I partially agree with pharmaceutical limits, but not how you may think. The doctor is the ultimate end all, be all for medications. I believe pharmas shouldn't be allowed to market to doctors.
    Doctors are the only ones who actually need to know about new meds. If you stop marketing to doctors, you're actually doing the same thing as stopping marketing aimed at kids: putting a regulation in place to make up for people's laziness or poor choices. What's the difference between the two scenarios?

    The doctor is faced with a wall of ads every day for new meds, and if he isn't lazy he'll wade through them, do the research and figure out which meds his patients actually need, and probably a lot of them will walk out with prescriptions for generic meds. Many doctors, however, don't bother or don't have time to actually check into what a patient really needs (or don't care that a generic med will work as well as the brand-name), and thus prescribes the med du jour, and the advertising has worked.

    Likewise, a child is faced with walls of advertising for products that are designed to catch their eye. However, a child is not intellectually mature enough to understand why his senses and desires are being manipulated, or even that they are being manipulated by the images on the screen. By allowing marketing aimed at children, we're letting our kids get all wound up (and they don't have a choice in the matter, the advertising is unavoidable) and expecting the discipline of the parents to make up for it. It makes for a war of wills between children and parents, and the result for parents is lose/lose; either the kid is throwing tantrums, or they're getting something that they don't need and probably won't like within the next week (for toys; for food, they're getting obese and sick). So yes, regulating ads against children would make parents' jobs easier, and may even make up for bad parenting...but it makes for better family relationships, which result in better children growing up to be better parents. I think that's pretty win/win.
    ~Cap

  26. #66
    Philosopher sirwolfric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifforo View Post
    In response to the OP:

    It would probably be less frightening and more educational to target slightly older children and have them play this:

    http://www.addictinggames.com/burgertycoon.html


    Strategy for winning, courtesy of the game's forums:

    Pause the game. Get two fields with genetically modified soy, and three fields with three cows each. Add growth hormones to the feed in the feedlot. Hire one burger maker and one cashier. Corrupt a health officer. Start the game. Don't kill sick cows; you have a corrupt health officer. After a few months, those nine cows will go to the feedlot, and eventually they will reach 1000 pounds and be slaughtered. A month or two after this happens, do the following: corrupt a nutritionist, initiate the food pyramid and children want burgers marketing campaigns, and fully staff the restaurant. After a few years, fertility will get low on the grazing fields. After the cows mature and are sent to the feedlot, sell the fields when they are around 54% fertility, and purchase the other three fields and put three cows on each. Keep rotating, as the fertility will slowly be restored to fields you sell, and the environmentalists will come after you if fertility goes below 50%. Periodically reward/discipline unhappy employees and fire them if they stay angry. Every once in a while, check with the board for your relations with the various groups, and corrupt a politician for a few months to keep organized labor and the anti-globalization movement off your back when they start to get upset. If you are going to be AFK, just plow the rainforest and get some grazing fields with one cow each. You might need to corrupt a climatologist for a while after doing this.
    Lmao, i have played this game many times, and never could win. Now i can, thanks. But, to me this doesnt affect. I dont know why, but i just really dont care how the meat is treated. Im not gonna want really expensive meat so the chickens and cows can have a happy life. Especially with this economy.
    "Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are"

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