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Thread: Oh Patch 3.3

  1. #1

    Default Oh Patch 3.3

    For my fellow World of Warcraft players, patch 3.3 has finally come. I thought it would descend from the heavens instead it has crawled up from a deep dark place. For thousands if not billions of people; some are getting disconnected before they can even get to the character screen.

    I have waited for months. I have dreamed a dream but now that dream is gone from me.

    Anyone else in a state of WoW limbo?

  2. #2

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    Rejoice! Servers are being rebooted atm, hopefully we can get in after.

    Guild I'm in actually tries to raid on patch days

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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    Rejoice! Servers are being rebooted atm, hopefully we can get in after.

    Guild I'm in actually tries to raid on patch days
    Ouch. I remember the Ulduar disaster. Server crashes every 15 minutes. Falling through the ramps.

    Im not even sure if they tested the Lich King encounter. Right now Im getting the message that says unable to connect. I think Ill PuG some stuff.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuhvok01 View Post
    Ouch. I remember the Ulduar disaster. Server crashes every 15 minutes. Falling through the ramps.

    Im not even sure if they tested the Lich King encounter. Right now Im getting the message that says unable to connect. I think Ill PuG some stuff.
    Only the first 4 bosses are available, so it doesn't matter that they haven't properly tested 3/4 of the encounters.

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  5. #5
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    I have the unable to connect screen as well, battle.net is down and world of warcraft site itself is inaccessible.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuhvok01 View Post
    Anyone else in a state of WoW limbo?
    I could not log on when I last attempted about 2 hours ago. Cenarius (normal PvE) was still down.

    Stinks because I just got my first toon to 80 yesterday too.

  7. #7

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    wtb khadgar up, got several ICC 10 man's if it's up by 8

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  8. #8

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    Go to yahoo.com, World of Warcraft is currently their number 9 search. So many people are checking realm status that the WoW site is down.

    In a few weeks when stability returns, Im going to start a thread and get all the WoW/Travian players together in a 10 man raid or at least a 5 man.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuhvok01 View Post
    So many people are checking realm status that the WoW site is down..
    LIH, fial .
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  10. #10

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    I'm ****ed off because xperl is broke broke, not just out of date and still works, but BROKE. It's so broken that it causes me to lag while in instances. I hate the default blizzard frames.

    However there's nothing unusual about the stability and lag issues of this patch. It comes with every major content patch.
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  11. #11

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    Good thing I can't play for a week.
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  12. #12
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    I haven't encountered any issues yet.

    Off-topic...

    Does anyone have links to a really good tanking guide? Newbie level 80 with decent protective gear (546 defense), but I haven't mastered the whole keeping aggro thing.

    It's making for some very uncomfortable group and raid experiences.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    I'm ****ed off because xperl is broke broke, not just out of date and still works, but BROKE. It's so broken that it causes me to lag while in instances. I hate the default blizzard frames.

    However there's nothing unusual about the stability and lag issues of this patch. It comes with every major content patch.
    http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...it-frames.aspx

    I used this until x-perl was updated.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    I haven't encountered any issues yet.

    Off-topic...

    Does anyone have links to a really good tanking guide? Newbie level 80 with decent protective gear (546 defense), but I haven't mastered the whole keeping aggro thing.

    It's making for some very uncomfortable group and raid experiences.
    Class?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    I haven't encountered any issues yet.

    Off-topic...

    Does anyone have links to a really good tanking guide? Newbie level 80 with decent protective gear (546 defense), but I haven't mastered the whole keeping aggro thing.

    It's making for some very uncomfortable group and raid experiences.
    Class matters. =P

    I'm a main-spec protadin....
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    Class matters. =P

    I'm a main-spec protadin....
    I have one of those for an alt. 969 iz hard.

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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    I have one of those for an alt. 969 iz hard.
    Meh, most people foul up protadin tanking on AoE, not bosses. I don't even bother with 969 since I generate enough threat that I don't need to optimize my rotation, at least with what I'm currently doing. Every time I lose threat it's because a DPS class is attacking an unmarked target. I just let them die and tell the healer not to heal them, serves them right for not following directions. Unless things have drastically changed (and I can't adequately compare DK tanks), paladins have always had the highest threat gen. Just look at BC, between warrior/druid/paladin, paladin was the most frequent class to tank Void Reaver without ever losing threat.

    I've been doing Random Heroics for Triumph emblems. Can you verify my emblem counts?

    Nexus - 4 Bosses
    Oculus - 3 Bosses
    Azjol-Nerub - 3 Bosses
    Old Kingdom - 5 Bosses
    Drak'Theron - 4 Bosses
    Gundrak - 5 Bosses
    Utgardt Keep - 3 Bosses (Maybe 4?)
    Utgardt Pinnacle - 4 Bosses
    Stratholme - 5 Bosses (if you get timer)
    Halls of Stone - 4 Bosses
    Halls of Lightning - 4 Bosses
    Violet Hold - 3 Bosses
    IC1 - 2 Bosses
    IC2 - 3 Bosses
    IC3 - 3 Bosses (I can't remember the instance names, haven't memorized them...)

    So if my count is right, that's 55 Triumph badges from bosses, then you get 2 more for each one you do random for around 85 Triumph badges total (if you can do all the heroics in a single day). I reckon I need about 457 Triumph badges or better to get the best possible non-raiding gear I can, excluding the new frost badge gear...

    I quit WoW within a couple months of WotLK's launch. I was going to be our guilds MT/protadin, but I got ****ed off at politics involving the raid leader and felt my time was much better spent doing other things. =P

    Edit:
    Also, the third IC instance 2nd boss.... he gives a debuff that reduces HP by 50%. That's what makes the fight hard and that's why the fight is a cakewalk with a protadin. Bubble cleanses the buff and every competent protadin has the /cast Divine Shield /cancelaura Divine Shield macro.
    Last edited by StealthSigma; 12-10-2009 at 12:58 PM.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    Meh, most people foul up protadin tanking on AoE, not bosses. I don't even bother with 969 since I generate enough threat that I don't need to optimize my rotation, at least with what I'm currently doing. Every time I lose threat it's because a DPS class is attacking an unmarked target. I just let them die and tell the healer not to heal them, serves them right for not following directions. Unless things have drastically changed (and I can't adequately compare DK tanks), paladins have always had the highest threat gen. Just look at BC, between warrior/druid/paladin, paladin was the most frequent class to tank Void Reaver without ever losing threat.

    I've been doing Random Heroics for Triumph emblems. Can you verify my emblem counts?

    Nexus - 4 Bosses
    Oculus - 3 Bosses
    Azjol-Nerub - 3 Bosses
    Old Kingdom - 5 Bosses
    Drak'Theron - 4 Bosses
    Gundrak - 5 Bosses
    Utgardt Keep - 3 Bosses (Maybe 4?)
    Utgardt Pinnacle - 4 Bosses
    Stratholme - 5 Bosses (if you get timer)
    Halls of Stone - 4 Bosses
    Halls of Lightning - 4 Bosses
    Violet Hold - 3 Bosses
    IC1 - 2 Bosses
    IC2 - 3 Bosses
    IC3 - 3 Bosses (I can't remember the instance names, haven't memorized them...)

    So if my count is right, that's 55 Triumph badges from bosses, then you get 2 more for each one you do random for around 85 Triumph badges total (if you can do all the heroics in a single day). I reckon I need about 457 Triumph badges or better to get the best possible non-raiding gear I can, excluding the new frost badge gear...

    I quit WoW within a couple months of WotLK's launch. I was going to be our guilds MT/protadin, but I got ****ed off at politics involving the raid leader and felt my time was much better spent doing other things. =P

    Edit:
    Also, the third IC instance 2nd boss.... he gives a debuff that reduces HP by 50%. That's what makes the fight hard and that's why the fight is a cakewalk with a protadin. Bubble cleanses the buff and every competent protadin has the /cast Divine Shield /cancelaura Divine Shield macro.
    Nexus has 5.

    If you que for random dungeon it can ignore lockout, so you can run the same heroic many times.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...adgar&n=Aoiryn

    My alt's gear isn't that great, i have to fight against good dps for threat, even on bosses.

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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    Nexus has 5.

    If you que for random dungeon it can ignore lockout, so you can run the same heroic many times.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...adgar&n=Aoiryn

    My alt's gear isn't that great, i have to fight against good dps for threat, even on bosses.
    Oooo, really? You can get the same heroic multiple times within the lockout period? That explains why someone of my guild members were saying it's a great way to farm badges. And it also means you won't get screwed over queuing up as you've done more and more. I really like the feature because it gives people like me (who have a distinct intolerance of PuGs) a reason to deal with PuGs. Also do you remember if you get any Frost badges from doing random heroics? I'm at a tad of a frustration as in my current gear set my cloak, shield, and weapon aren't going to be easy to upgrade. Shield and weapon both are raid only upgrades, and the only non-raid cloak upgrade that I know of is the Emblem of Frost cloak.

    I can't look at gear from this connection, most WoW related stuff is blocked, so I work from memory more than anything. I tend to use wow-heroes.com for looking at gear on tanks rather than armory since wow-heroes gives better breakdowns, but here's mine via armory. Protadins have always been threat monsters since we have so much passive threat generation rather than active. Basically, get your 540 defense, then gear for stamina. Since crushing blows was removed from lv80 characters, there's no need to hit that 102.4% mark for Miss/Dodge/Parry/Block.

    The problem with protadins is a lack of gimicks that druids and warriors had. Protadins consistently take less damage than warriors and druids (because of the high high avoidance) but we had the lowest hit points of the three classes. There were a few WotLK fights that paladins had problems doing precisely because of a lack of gimicks, but for a well oiled machine protadins are the best tanks of those three. Like I said, I don't know DK tanking at all, I've never really seen it or bothered to do much research on the theorycraft.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...shi&n=Talderas
    Last edited by StealthSigma; 12-10-2009 at 01:21 PM.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    Oooo, really? You can get the same heroic multiple times within the lockout period? That explains why someone of my guild members were saying it's a great way to farm badges. And it also means you won't get screwed over queuing up as you've done more and more. I really like the feature because it gives people like me (who have a distinct intolerance of PuGs) a reason to deal with PuGs. Also do you remember if you get any Frost badges from doing random heroics? I'm at a tad of a frustration as in my current gear set my cloak, shield, and weapon aren't going to be easy to upgrade. Shield and weapon both are raid only upgrades, and the only non-raid cloak upgrade that I know of is the Emblem of Frost cloak.

    I can't look at gear from this connection, most WoW related stuff is blocked, so I work from memory more than anything. I tend to use wow-heroes.com for looking at gear on tanks rather than armory since wow-heroes gives better breakdowns, but here's mine via armory.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...shi&n=Talderas
    First give 2x frost, rest give 2x triumph, along with all the bosses dropping triumph.

    http://wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone...ar&name=aoiryn
    t
    edit: With present scaleing, protadins actually have second highest stam-scaleing. The MT for the guild I'm in is at like 51k raid buffed.

    edit2: uncrittable, 32k hp unbuffed, ~45% pure avoidance with libram proc (excluding block)
    Last edited by world_warrior; 12-10-2009 at 01:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    First give 2x frost, rest give 2x triumph, along with all the bosses dropping triumph.

    http://wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone...ar&name=aoiryn
    t
    edit: With present scaleing, protadins actually have second highest stam-scaleing. The MT for the guild I'm in is at like 51k raid buffed.
    Yeah, I know paladins have great stam scaling, it's just that it takes a bit for that to kick in, though they're supposed to normalize the starting hitpoints so the various classes are closer. How many hit points is that paladin at unbuffed? I think I sit at around 29k hp unbuffed, and I was hitting 39-41k buffed last night (I think). I think I sit around 40-45% avoidance without buffs or block.

    All I know is that my frost badges are being saved for the frost badge cloak.
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    Yeah, I know paladins have great stam scaling, it's just that it takes a bit for that to kick in, though they're supposed to normalize the starting hitpoints so the various classes are closer. How many hit points is that paladin at unbuffed? I think I sit at around 29k hp unbuffed, and I was hitting 39-41k buffed last night (I think).

    All I know is that my frost badges are being saved for the frost badge cloak.
    44k-ish? He's wearing almost entirely ToGC25 gear.

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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    44k-ish? He's wearing almost entirely ToGC25 gear.
    That's what I figured, my gear level is so below where I would like it (even though I'm not an active progression raider). My boots disgust me.
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    That's what I figured, my gear level is so below where I would like it (even though I'm not an active progression raider). My boots disgust me.
    Farm up ToC 5 reg, eadric drops some ilvl 200 epic boots. I'm wearing em. wtb cloak upgrade, still using the one from the faction boss in H nexus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    Farm up ToC 5 reg, eadric drops some ilvl 200 epic boots. I'm wearing em. wtb cloak upgrade, still using the one from the faction boss in H nexus.
    Right, it's Eadric's drop. Which means you have a 50% of getting the boss in the first place. I do not like random %s based on random %s. I'll probably go with purchasing Kyzoc's Ground Stompers (40 Valor Badges) or buying Inexorable Sabatons which are a BoE drop from Naxx25.

    The only non-raid cloak (besides the Frost Emblem cloak) that would be an upgrade is Platinum Mesh Cloak for 25 Valor Emblems. That's about on par with the cloak I have (Cloak of the Shadowed Sun from Naxx25).
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  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    Right, it's Eadric's drop. Which means you have a 50% of getting the boss in the first place. I do not like random %s based on random %s. I'll probably go with purchasing Kyzoc's Ground Stompers (40 Valor Badges) or buying Inexorable Sabatons which are a BoE drop from Naxx25.

    The only non-raid cloak (besides the Frost Emblem cloak) that would be an upgrade is Platinum Mesh Cloak for 25 Valor Emblems. That's about on par with the cloak I have (Cloak of the Shadowed Sun from Naxx25).
    I'm probably going to be putting the first bunch of Frost emblems toward the new libram, 73 dodge stacking 3 times? yes plz

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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    I'm probably going to be putting the first bunch of Frost emblems toward the new libram, 73 dodge stacking 3 times? yes plz
    I cannot remember, is that triggered on HoR or SoR?

    Oh, and while it may suck to use it, always keep your Repelling Charge. Sometimes going up in gear yields less defense rating and the goal is to run as close to 690 defense rating as possible so you can maximize your stamina enchants/gems. So while you'll have to a stam trinket (and consequently around 1500hp or so) you maintain the uncrittable status with the trinket which is of the utmost importance. When I came back I realized I needed only around 19 defense rating to ditch my Repelling Charge, so I had around 4x as much defense rating on the trinket than I needed. I had to get some ToC gear before I could correct that.
    Last edited by StealthSigma; 12-10-2009 at 02:14 PM.
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  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    I cannot remember, is that triggered on HoR or SoR?
    ShoR

    Unlike my present 200 dodge one on proc from HotR

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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    ShoR

    Unlike my present 200 dodge one on proc from HotR
    I haven't read the specifics on that frost libram proc so I don't know how nice it is. I tend to track towards librams where the proc effect can be maintained constantly, and if that libram effect can't be maintained I would personally go with the cloak first.
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  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    I haven't read the specifics on that frost libram proc so I don't know how nice it is. I tend to track towards librams where the proc effect can be maintained constantly, and if that libram effect can't be maintained I would personally go with the cloak first.
    frost: Every time you use SoR you gain 73 dodge, stacks 3 times.

    triumph: HotR has a 80% chance to give 200 dodge for 18 sec

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    frost: Every time you use SoR you gain 73 dodge, stacks 3 times.

    triumph: HotR has a 80% chance to give 200 dodge for 18 sec
    Yeah, that's the tooltip, doesn't really discuss any internal mechanics. =P
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  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    Yeah, that's the tooltip, doesn't really discuss any internal mechanics. =P
    Huh? I have the triumph libram, and that's the way the spell works according to wowhead.

    There are no ICD's, the triumph libram has near 100% uptime if that's what you mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    Huh? I have the triumph libram, and that's the way the spell works according to wowhead.

    There are no ICD's, the triumph libram has near 100% uptime if that's what you mean.
    Yeah that stuff.

    Edit: Now that we've given jdurand about 20 posts of content regarding paladin tanks....
    Last edited by StealthSigma; 12-10-2009 at 05:15 PM.
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  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    Yeah that stuff.

    Edit: Now that we've given jdurand about 20 posts of content regarding paladin tanks....
    Should discuss the distinctive difference between Affliction and Destruction play-style next.

    I prefer afflic, less spamming incinerate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    Should discuss the distinctive difference between Affliction and Destruction play-style next.

    I prefer afflic, less spamming incinerate.
    Here's a good story about people that cannot listen.

    So, last night I was playing a Random Heroic. First one I got was the last Icecrown instance. Just in case you don't know this instance (and for those who may be reading) it uses a wave mechanic, similar to Black Morass, Culling of Strat, or Violet Hold. You face 3 waves of trash mobs classed like Warriors, Mages, Priests, Rogues, and Hunters then a boss. You do this twice. The room itself is circle with a pedestal in the middle. This pedestal blocks line of sight. This is wonderful, in theory, because it makes it much easier for the mage and hunter mobs to be drawn in close to the tank, and allows the players to LoS the mage and hunter mobs as well.

    So I directed my PUGs (+ one guildie dps) to use the following kill order. Priest->Mercenary(Rogue)->Mage->Hunter->Warrior
    I want the rogue dead before the mage since the rogue stuns, which makes the damage I take from the warrior and hunter increase. I also told them that if they have the mage or hunter on them, to LoS them with the pedestal and sit right next to me, that way when they run around to get to the target they hit my consecrate and other AoE stuff pulling the hate on me. Pretty simple, right? WRONG. They failed to do this, requiring me to dance to stupid extremes attempting to taunt mobs, get behind LoS, all the while attempting to maintain positioning and threat on the mobs that were in melee. I'm sure you understand the mechanic of -not- having mobs behind you where they get freebie hits on you.

    It was a friggin travesty. 1st attempt failed to meet the 1st boss, 2nd attempt saw the 1st boss, 3rd attempt beat the 1st boss, then died on the way to 2nd boss. I ditched the PUGs at that point. How hard can it be to follow simple directions? I asked the DPSer from my guild if I was doing something wrong, which I wasn't, and he said he never had these problems in the instance. Ridiculous. PUGs are so bad sometimes.

    Edit: This was really exacerbated by the fact that mob pathing or player hit boxes has changed. It's always been a PITA to keep mobs in front of you, but things have been worse since 3.3. Tanks are having to dance with the mobs that are in melee with them even more making it difficult for us to keep them and casters all grouped.
    Last edited by StealthSigma; 12-11-2009 at 12:37 PM.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    Class?
    Warrior.

    EDIT: Sorry for the late response, been away from the pc for a couple days.

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    Tanks are having to dance with the mobs that are in melee...
    This is one of the problems I was experiencing. Despite Sunder Armor, Thunder Clap and the use of other threat-generating talents one of the mob would inevitably break away and target another player (usually the healer).

    That is the point where people start messaging "why can't you keep aggro?" and I start running around in panic, trying to pull the entire mob again. People die, they get irritated and I feel like a horse's butt.

    Now, I realize that I need to better understand and make use of the aggro-holding talents at my disposal (and I am really making efforts to better understand their ins and outs).

    However, I also think that it is partly the responsibility of those being attacked to bring their attackers back to me so I can pull aggro without dancing around like a member of bad boy-band or something.

    Maybe I have that last part wrong.
    Last edited by jdurand; 12-11-2009 at 01:10 PM.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    WThis is one of the problems I was experiencing. Despite Sunder Armor, Thunder Clap and the use of other threat-generating talents one of the mob would inevitably break away and target another player (usually the healer).

    That is the point where people start messaging "why can't you keep aggro?" and I start running around in panic, trying to pull the entire mob again. People die, they get irritated and I feel like a horse's butt.

    Now, I realize that I need to better understand and make use of the aggro-holding talents at my disposal (and I am really making efforts to better understand their ins and outs).

    However, I also think that it is partly the responsibility of those being attacked to bring their attackers back to me so I can pull aggro without dancing around like a member of bad boy-band or something.

    Maybe I have that last part wrong.
    I live by this philosophy. Basically, in heroics I have a kill order, I either mark it or type it out. I do not deviate from this kill order. The kill order indicates which mobs you can safely attack. My AoE threat is enough to out-threat healer and out-threat AoE damage. The problem is, if a DPS attacks a mob out of kill order, they will frequently out-threat me on it, pull aggro and die. That's their problem, not mine. If you can't follow instructions, then you deserve whatever happens to you. Paladins are the AoE tanks still due to consecrate and HoR. Which means the kill order is more important for other tank classes (sans DK, still don't know about those SoBs). Just mark the mobs, enforce the kill order, and you will do a lot better. If players are taking aggro off you from your primary target, then they need to hold back a bit. Simple as that. DPS is a dime a dozen. Tanks and healers aren't. If your DPS is being stupid, replace them. Now, if your healer is pulling aggro, then you need better gear for threat/survivability, or you need to work on your tanking skills.

    If three DPS are attacking three different mobs, I don't think there's much that any tanking class can do to keep aggro on all three mobs, assuming about equal gear/player skill levels.

    The mobs jumping around is a known bug. Ghostcrawler confirmed it. However that's a -partial- aggro issue, -partial- melee dps getting killed issue. IIRC both warriors and paladins have multi-target attacks, but they don't affect mobs behind you. I don't think it's an issue in heroic, but the DPS portion is from mobs that cleave, meaning they run through you, attack then cleave the melee DPS.
    Last edited by StealthSigma; 12-11-2009 at 01:27 PM.
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    LoS to the alcoves.

    Where the 2 bosses stand there are little corners to their sides, have your other 4 group members stand in that, you conc outside of it. The healer will inevitably draw aggro, they will run through conc, and you get aggro. Easiest way to tank it.

    Up to 36.4k unbuffed tanked an alt run of both toc 10 and toc 25 yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by world_warrior View Post
    LoS to the alcoves.

    Where the 2 bosses stand there are little corners to their sides, have your other 4 group members stand in that, you conc outside of it. The healer will inevitably draw aggro, they will run through conc, and you get aggro. Easiest way to tank it.

    Up to 36.4k unbuffed tanked an alt run of both toc 10 and toc 25 yesterday.
    Tried that method too. Idiots still stand in the open and get facerolled. I also hate the alcoves because of how much it screws with the camera. It's not worth my time to do HoR with idiots and PuGs.

    I'm not sure how much unbuffed HP I'm up to now. It's somewhere around 34-36k. Though I socketed for color, when I could have gotten just a few more HP from putting stam gems instead of Dodge/Stam or Defense/Stam gems. I went nuts this weekend on badges. I pulled in 44 Friday night, 157 on Saturday, and 55ish on Sunday. I have every bit of worthwhile Triumph gear for tanking now. I spent a good portion of Sunday mining and leveling blacksmithing after replacing skinning.
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    Yes, but do you have your Night Elf Mohawk Grenades?

    (I don't actually play, I just get bombarded with the commercials... )
    TCG says... sign your -Rep, cowards. I don't -Rep people just because they -Rep me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cat Goddess View Post
    Yes, but do you have your Night Elf Mohawk Grenades?

    (I don't actually play, I just get bombarded with the commercials... )
    I picked up a 5-pack...that outlasted the entertainment value by about 4 grenades.

    Today starts the Winter Veil celebration though, so it should be fun trying to get all of the achievements.

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