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Thread: Outsidergua guide to CAP Hammers

  1. #1

    Default Guide to CAP Hammers

    First of all let me start by saving you some time.

    This thread is NOT for you
    - If you you are looking to build the largest hammer in the server.
    - If you are just joining a server for the first time. This guide main purpose is to provide with a check list of goals that experienced players can take advantage of.


    This thread is for you
    - If you like having a big hammer but once you hit mid game you hate using it because it's such a feeding nightmare.
    - If you can't find yourself a good dual or are not sure you will have reliable sitters.
    - If you live in constant fear of having your "hammertown" chiefed.


    There are a couple of things to consider before we get into more detailed information.

    - I built this hammer on s8. Server8 troop building times were T3.0.
    All new servers are working on T3.6 which means they can build 20% faster than what I was able to build troops.
    In case you are still wondering and scratching your head. That means you should be able to build a much bigger hammer than mine.

    - This guide is mainly aimed at providing you with goals.
    I will show you how my hammer looked at different stages of the game so that you can use this guide as your point of reference.
    I'm sure you'll be able to tweak a few things here and there.

    So without further ado I present to you.

    Guide to building Cap Hammers



    The 3 most important items on your check list are the following.

    1. Acquire a "Troop Building" Artifact
    2. Borrow the "GG/GW" Artifact
    3. Acquire a "Wheat saving" artifact


    I'm not gonna spend much time explaining the mechanics of choosing a capital or upgrading Wheat fields or when to queue or not queue troops. Again, I'm assuming this isn't your first time building a hammer.



    There is one single rule though. And you will need to make sure you follow this rule if you really want to make this happen.

    DO NOT upgrade your wheat fields beyond lvl 18 before the Mid-Game Artifacts are released.
    The important thing here is that you don't stop your troop production at any time. So upgrading your wheat fields to lvl 18 only will allow you to keep your Barracks, Stable, Workshop and Tournament Square in place.

    Here is a look at how your Capital must look prior to releasing the Mid-Game artifacts and after finishing all the blacksmith upgrades.



    Now, as I said before. The main reason you DO NOT want to build beyond lvl 18 using regular warehouses is because you want to be able to keep all of your military infrastructure in place.
    You will definitely build lvl 19s or maybe even lvl 20 wheat fields but that wont happen until you have either "The Babylonian Tablet" or "The Builder's Sketch" in your possession. Or as we call them in game "The GW/GW arties".


    But lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Let first go over the strategy that will put you in position of getting a hold of the necessary artifacts that will allow you to successfully build a Cap Hammer.


    1. Conquering a Troop Building Artifact

    The first and most important thing is having the ability of building troops at the same speed as people with "hammertowns" do.
    So our first goal will be conquering "Troop building artifact" from the Natars.

    There are three types of troop building artifact, and I'm gonna sort them from top to bottom.
    The top one being the most important one.

    ● Unique: Memoirs of Alexander the Great = Reduces troop build time in Half (all your villages)
    ● Village: Scribed Soldier's Oath = Reduces troop build time in Half (one village only)
    ● Account: Declaration of War =Reduces troop build time in one quarter (all your villages)

    Unless you are absolutely out of luck you will have a good shot at one of them.
    Last edited by Outsidergua; 03-15-2010 at 03:28 PM. Reason: d
    Из России с любовью
    s1r7 Hammer 1
    s1r7 Hammer 2
    S2r6 Mr. Noodle/ FEAR 2WW hits not saved
    s5r5 Hammer 1 Won
    s5r5 Hammer 2 Won
    s8r1 Cap Hammers are back Won
    S2R2 Outsidergua Lost
    Guide to Cap Hammers

  2. #2

    Default Guide to CAP Hammers

    1. Conquering a Troop Building Artifact (Continues from Page 1)

    First thing is first, you will need troops lots of them. But the NATAR villages are well defended and you definitely don't want to end up without a hammer after conquering your arti.
    So... along with building your real hammer you'll also need to build a couple of mini hammers that you will splat onto the NATAR villages in order to soften the way for your real hammer.

    Remember, building troops in a CAP is way slower than building on hammertown. So don't get discouraged if you don't see the troop count increasing as fast at the beginning.

    Here is a look at how my CAP hammer looked on Day 84.
    You would think it doesn't look to good for me huh?




    Fast Forward a few days. The mid game artifacts were released around day 149
    I hit the Natar village containing an "Account wide Artifact (1/4 time reduction)" with a couple of mini hammers like this

    A few seconds later the CAP hammer hit



    And then my hero followed him from another village with a lvl 20 TC.
    Now, the reason you don't see my hero landing with the hammer is because I didn't want to have a lvl 20 TC in my cap as I would've had to demo it in order to bring the "GG" arty and subsequently the "1/2 wheat" arty.
    More on that in a second....


    At this point I had the 1/4 reduction building arty.
    Now my list of goals was :

    - Borrow "GG/GW arty"
    - Acquire "1/2 wheat" arty
    Last edited by Outsidergua; 03-13-2010 at 01:49 AM.
    Из России с любовью
    s1r7 Hammer 1
    s1r7 Hammer 2
    S2r6 Mr. Noodle/ FEAR 2WW hits not saved
    s5r5 Hammer 1 Won
    s5r5 Hammer 2 Won
    s8r1 Cap Hammers are back Won
    S2R2 Outsidergua Lost
    Guide to Cap Hammers

  3. #3

    Default Guide to CAP Hammers

    2. Borrowing a GG/GW Arty

    This is where team playing comes into play. You can only borrow a GG arty from people that trusts you.
    It is very likely that your alliance got a hold of a couple of GG arties. But why would they want to let you borrow one?
    You have to prove you are a team player, those troops you've been building at such fast rate are not only yours. They belong to the alliance as well.
    And I want to think you have been using them for the benefit of the alliance. If you are able to prove your worthy to the alliance. You will more likely become a priority recipient for any of the arties.
    So make sure you are a good team player.
    Here is how my cap looked after borrowing the "GG arty"




    3. Acquiring a Wheat arty

    Well... now you are building troops even at a faster pace than the people with regular hammertowns that don't own arties.
    There are very few accounts that can afford to queue troops 24/7 in their Great Barracks or Great Stables. So you got the advantage on them because you are queuing troops faster at regular price.
    But soon the number of bellies to feed will become overwhelming. And you will need a wheat artifact to help feeding them.

    At this point you will need to steal a "Wheat artifact" from your enemy.

    Now.. this is where it got a little tricky for me. At that point in the server the only wheat artifact available was owned by the leader of an alliance that would soon become an ally.

    So.. I brokered an exchange... my troop building arty for his wheat arty.
    Queued lots of hours of troops and then exchanged arties.
    So, at this point we have food but no troop building arty.

    38 hours from me there was an enemy player holding the Unique Troop building artifact.
    The player in question was a top robber, top attacker and probably the biggest hammer in the server at the time.
    The reason I'm giving you all this background is because it was known that he was gonna get heavily defended.
    Yet, we were able to pretty much catch him off guard.

    You can pretty much steal an arty using several different types of strategies once you have a sizable hammer. But if you want to know exactly how we did it, PM me.
    I'll be glad to share my strategy with any of you.

    Day 182 Troop Building Artifact Stolen



    At this point you have achieved all three of your goals

    1. Troop building arty
    2. Wheat arty
    3. Building GW/GGs

    It's all downhill from here except for all the people that keep trying to steal your thunder.

    Even if you have several mini-hammers, using your main hammer is always very tempting.
    Sometimes you will pay the price..

    Day 219 Half the hammer is gone
    Day 303 Another chunk is gone




    Don't get discouraged though. As long as you are able to keep your arties you will be fine:

    And finally, launching day.
    This is the thing you really love the most. A hammer that size and you don't really have to worry about logging too often or asking other people to take care of feeding it.


    WW lvl 58 destroyed


    I hope this guide is useful for you guys. Farmers, simmers or attackers should not have a problem adapting this method into your gaming styles and tweaking it a bit here and there.

    You don't need a BIG account or to be on the top robbers every week or bother other people with garaging your troops at their villages with this kind of set up.
    I ended up with only 27 villages (the top simmer had 49) and I was Ranked 189 overall. I got 7 robbers ribbons all of them prior to mid game. So not really a top notch account as you can see.

    The most important goals are having faster troop building ability and feeding capabilities.
    Work your way around this guide. You don't have to necessarily go for a village wheat arty and an account troop building arty.
    You can mix it up, you can go for a village troop building arty and an account wheat arty for instance.

    I left out a bunch of screen shots from my mini-hammers and my "raiding hammers" but if you'd like me to post a little more about that let me know.

    Good Luck to all and have fun!
    Last edited by Outsidergua; 03-13-2010 at 07:53 AM.
    Из России с любовью
    s1r7 Hammer 1
    s1r7 Hammer 2
    S2r6 Mr. Noodle/ FEAR 2WW hits not saved
    s5r5 Hammer 1 Won
    s5r5 Hammer 2 Won
    s8r1 Cap Hammers are back Won
    S2R2 Outsidergua Lost
    Guide to Cap Hammers

  4. #4

    Default

    Nicely written. I reckon it's really hard or unlikely to get 2 sought after artifacts like that (a good team should be able to share the great storage one though, that's pretty easy), but if you can do it then a capital hammer can certainly work.

    People might be cheesed off that it could be even better to use those artifacts on a non-cap hammer, but meh. Cheesed off people should have gotten to them first.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Nicely written. I reckon it's really hard or unlikely to get 2 sought after artifacts like that (a good team should be able to share the great storage one though, that's pretty easy), but if you can do it then a capital hammer can certainly work.

    People might be cheesed off that it could be even better to use those artifacts on a non-cap hammer, but meh. Cheesed off people should have gotten to them first.
    Yeah, between the cost of running the five buildings 24/7 with the troop build artifact and then feeding them all server most people can't keep all 5 buildings queud with the artifact anyway.

    Very well written guide!
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  6. #6

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    Ok, this guide is very well written. I wish more people who try writing guides would use this as an example.

    Beyond that though, this is not at all useful. While I don't play there, I've kept track of the happenings on s8 and I will not deny that you've had one of the most effective accounts on that server. I am of the very firm opinion though that you could have had an even larger impact by following the proven strategy of keeping your hammer village beside your capital.

    My problems with this guide:

    1) First off, I'll state the obvious. Your guide relies on the use of 3 very valuable artifacts. While the GG/GW one shouldn't be too hard to get (though you shouldn't necessarily rely on it), the troop building and half wheat arties are extremely valuable overall. To get one, then the other, you have to be very talented, very lucky, and/or be very heavily supported by your alliance. You did manage it, but I'd bet the odds of your doing so again are somewhat slim and the odds of most people who try to follow this guide getting all 3 of those arties are pretty much zilch.

    2) You hogged a small troop building arty for most of the server. These arties are much more effective being passed around throughout an alliance. They can be passed between hammers allowing them to queue up siege, or even barracks/stable troops (building at double speed) for a month in advance, thus greatly increasing your alliance's total offensive capabilities. They can be used to allow a person who lost their hammer to rebuild it much more quickly with all the extra resources (wheat) they have. Late game, they can allow a massive WW killer to become even larger since an account with ~40 villages can actually support the double troop build speed in all 5 hammer buildings (B, S, WS, GB, GS) without even raiding. While I oppose the idea, you could even argue the value of having one large account use it in a hammer village while having many other accounts push it all server in order to produce one massive hammer.

    By only using it in your cap-hammer, your alliance got one account that was building troops at only a slightly faster rate than a player using all 5 troop producing buildings in a hammer village. Keeping that arty on one account is not by any means it's best use for your alliance.

    3) Already sort of mentioned this in #2, but your hammer could have been much larger if you'd done everything else the same but had it based in a non-cap village. A large account (or an awesome raider ) can afford to build from more than just the barrcks/stable/workshop even with the troop building arty. You also could have rebuilt more quickly after your losses by using the greats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outsidergua View Post
    This thread is for you
    - If you like having a big hammer but once you hit mid game you hate using it because it's such a feeding nightmare.
    - If you can't find yourself a good dual or are not sure you will have reliable sitters.
    The new trade route function, combined with proper planning, pretty much eliminate these problems (which are really just one problem).




    My basic overall point is that most players who read this guide will not be able to follow it due to how difficult it is to get all these arties. The ones who are able to follow it will be pretty darn good players who would be of better use to their alliance playing with a non-capital hammer village.


    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Outsidergua View Post
    ● Account: Sacred Hunting Bow =Reduces troop build time in one quarter (all your villages)
    I believe this should be "Declaration of War" as opposed to "Sacred Hunting Bow"
    Last edited by TheSteelCurtain; 03-13-2010 at 10:59 AM.
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    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.php?t=70839
    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.php?t=72723

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcey View Post
    Kismet +TRU =

  7. #7
    Philosopher Someoneelse2's Avatar
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    First, let me say I am extremely impressed with the amount of work you have put into this. However, this guide suffers from one major problem; if you're good enough to make use of 3 very good artifacts come midgame, you are far too good to be building a capital hammer. I think that an option that relies less on the artifacts would add a touch of realism.
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    Now that you're using words, I understand why you used pictures...
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  8. #8

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    Way to sum up what I spent 8 paragraphs saying in 4 lines Someoneelse2
    s1r4- Kismet -TRU
    s1r3- TheSteelCurtain -ONE

    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.php?t=70839
    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.php?t=72723

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcey View Post
    Kismet +TRU =

  9. #9

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    Thanks for writing this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Someoneelse2 View Post
    First, let me say I am extremely impressed with the amount of work you have put into this. However, this guide suffers from one major problem; if you're good enough to make use of 3 very good artifacts come midgame, you are far too good to be building a capital hammer. I think that an option that relies less on the artifacts would add a touch of realism.
    But skill is separate from a) time one is able to dedicate to the game and b) willingness/ability to deal with duals. As a person who enjoys owning my account and not having to take a vote for every major decision, then this guide is for me.
    Last edited by Sabbatine; 03-13-2010 at 02:24 PM.

  10. #10

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    I also considered doing this, and I also came to the same conclusion that TheSteelCurtain came to. However, in following this guide, you will:

    • Save a large amount of resources
    • Build siege at rate that you would if there was a "Great Workshop"
    • Have a much easier time feeding your hammer
    • Effectively build an unchiefable hammer
    • Build a hammer village that is much easier to defend, since you can consolidate defense that would be split between your hammer and capital in one village


    Through all of those pro's, I think the con of having just an average sized hammer to play with is worth following the normal protocol of building your hammer village adjacent to your capital.

    Outsidergua, that was a very nice hammer you had there, and it was effectively used, so congratulations on that, but you could have done twice the damage had you separated your hammer from your capital, or the accompanying hammers could have been larger had you passed around your troop build artifact. So all in all, I'm going to have to disagree with this idea. Yes, it is a feasible plan, but in no way is the most efficient use of mid-game artifacts.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSteelCurtain View Post
    Beyond that though, this is not at all useful. While I don't play there, I've kept track of the happenings on s8 and I will not deny that you've had one of the most effective accounts on that server. I am of the very firm opinion though that you could have had an even larger impact by following the proven strategy of keeping your hammer village beside your capital.
    As a fellow leader and alliance mate along side of Paul/MS I'd have to disagree. I will elaborate on your points below.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSteelCurtain View Post
    My problems with this guide:

    1) First off, I'll state the obvious. Your guide relies on the use of 3 very valuable artifacts. While the GG/GW one shouldn't be too hard to get (though you shouldn't necessarily rely on it), the troop building and half wheat arties are extremely valuable overall. To get one, then the other, you have to be very talented, very lucky, and/or be very heavily supported by your alliance. You did manage it, but I'd bet the odds of your doing so again are somewhat slim and the odds of most people who try to follow this guide getting all 3 of those arties are pretty much zilch.
    I think it's quite possible to get all 3 of these artifacts. The GG/GW one is easy to get, it gets passed around weekly and should only be given to people to have the res ready to get their building done fast. So the other 2 are valuable for sure, but I don't think they are impossible to get. (My account had the 3/4 build and the 1/2 wheat arti for the last couple months of the server simply by asking a fellow alliance mate).

    MS showed that it's not hard to clear a natar village using mini hammers, especially if you're going after a village wide artifact. A 2nd artifact is harder to get, yes, but you should have an intact hammer at this point and if you can organize some well thought out attacks you can steal an artifact from the enemy. If you fake an enemy arti village (account wide) for days or even weeks they surely will not have the res to keep building a new level 20 TS just to move it, and they will grow weary of feeding other peoples reins. MS did this, conquered one artifact and stole another from the enemy. While I don't think it's easy to do this by any means "slim" and "zilch" aren't exactly the odds I would give it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSteelCurtain View Post
    2) You hogged a small troop building arty for most of the server. These arties are much more effective being passed around throughout an alliance. They can be passed between hammers allowing them to queue up siege, or even barracks/stable troops (building at double speed) for a month in advance, thus greatly increasing your alliance's total offensive capabilities. They can be used to allow a person who lost their hammer to rebuild it much more quickly with all the extra resources (wheat) they have. Late game, they can allow a massive WW killer to become even larger since an account with ~40 villages can actually support the double troop build speed in all 5 hammer buildings (B, S, WS, GB, GS) without even raiding. While I oppose the idea, you could even argue the value of having one large account use it in a hammer village while having many other accounts push it all server in order to produce one massive hammer.

    By only using it in your cap-hammer, your alliance got one account that was building troops at only a slightly faster rate than a player using all 5 troop producing buildings in a hammer village. Keeping that arty on one account is not by any means it's best use for your alliance.
    He had the large unique troop build artifact which he stole a little under 2 months after the artifacts were released so he's had it about 70% of the time artis were out and less than 50% of the server. The small ones were being passed around, they are much easier and less wasteful to move. Since it was the unique build artifact he was building troops in several villages. You could argue it wasn't the best use for our alliance but I disagree, I think we gained the fact that we had a nice WW hammer that could never be chiefed and he STILL ended up bring one of the biggest hammers on the server. One less village to have to heavily rein at endgame can make a difference and our meta had more than enough endgame hammers to ensure a decisive victory.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSteelCurtain View Post
    3) Already sort of mentioned this in #2, but your hammer could have been much larger if you'd done everything else the same but had it based in a non-cap village. A large account (or an awesome raider ) can afford to build from more than just the barrcks/stable/workshop even with the troop building arty. You also could have rebuilt more quickly after your losses by using the greats.
    He never intended on having the largest hammer on the server, and it looks like he's still going to be in the top 3 WW hammers of the entire server. That's pretty damn impressive if you ask me. I ran a non cap hammer account and countless nights I was up trying to feed reins, call for reins and worry about the hammer going poof. In the end MS had a hammer that was about the exact same size in terms of attack power and he had wayyy more siege than us (granted that has nothing to do with a cap hammer) The only thing a non cap hammer would have changed with his hit is killing a bit more of the enemy defense, which will in no way affect the outcome of the server since we will declare victory in 2 days. So yes he had the potential to have a larger hammer but you neglect to mention the advantages to a cap hammer that he had all server long. Props MS, you played a big part in coordinating strikes and helping to secure a V victory all server long and it was a pleasure working along side you
    Last edited by sublim3d; 03-13-2010 at 02:43 PM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by sublim3d View Post
    I ran a non cap hammer account and countless nights I was up trying to feed reins, call for reins and worry about the hammer going poof.
    Looking at your signature, it seems that you ran a mace hammer, and you can't ignore that fact as I'm sure it made feeding it substantially more difficult.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by spry View Post
    Looking at your signature, it seems that you ran a mace hammer, and you can't ignore that fact as I'm sure it made feeding it substantially more difficult.
    It got hard as hell but we got a 1/2 wheat arti for the last 2 months before using it (at the point where it was becoming nearly impossible). At the end due to his siege count our hammer only consumed 35k/hr more than his (technically 17.5k when you take into account the 1/2 wheat artis).

  14. #14
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    A nice read, and congrats to MS for a nicely run account and a nice hammer. However, a "Guide," to me, means a strategy that's reproducible across a range of accounts and servers. So anything that relies on multiple artifacts doesn't quite qualify in my mind.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by sublim3d View Post

    I think it's quite possible to get all 3 of these artifacts. The GG/GW one is easy to get, it gets passed around weekly and should only be given to people to have the res ready to get their building done fast. So the other 2 are valuable for sure, but I don't think they are impossible to get. (My account had the 3/4 build and the 1/2 wheat arti for the last couple months of the server simply by asking a fellow alliance mate).
    Impossible? No. Difficult and unlikely? Yes. Likely enough to base your account around? If you're ok cutting your potential impact in half by not getting an arty and having a cap based hammer, sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by sublim3d View Post

    MS showed that it's not hard to clear a natar village using mini hammers, especially if you're going after a village wide artifact. A 2nd artifact is harder to get, yes, but you should have an intact hammer at this point and if you can organize some well thought out attacks you can steal an artifact from the enemy. If you fake an enemy arti village (account wide) for days or even weeks they surely will not have the res to keep building a new level 20 TS just to move it, and they will grow weary of feeding other peoples reins. MS did this, conquered one artifact and stole another from the enemy. While I don't think it's easy to do this by any means "slim" and "zilch" aren't exactly the odds I would give it.
    No, clearing a natar village is not that hard. The fact is though that there are only 5 artifacts per server that allow you to follow this guide's strategy. The small troop build arties are quickly being thought of as some of the most valuable small arties in the game, and thus are gobbled up quickly. You want to base your account around the chance that you might get lucky enough to get one of these arties from the natars?

    I think I've got a pretty good idea of how to steal arties from opponents. If you disagree, please view the threads linked in my signature. So now I ask if you'd like to base your account around the chance that you're skilled/lucky enough to steal an arty from an enemy?

    Quote Originally Posted by sublim3d View Post

    He had the large unique troop build artifact which he stole a little under 2 months after the artifacts were released so he's had it about 70% of the time artis were out and less than 50% of the server. The small ones were being passed around, they are much easier and less wasteful to move. Since it was the unique build artifact he was building troops in several villages. You could argue it wasn't the best use for our alliance but I disagree, I think we gained the fact that we had a nice WW hammer that could never be chiefed and he STILL ended up bring one of the biggest hammers on the server. One less village to have to heavily rein at endgame can make a difference and our meta had more than enough endgame hammers to ensure a decisive victory.

    My mistake on which arty he has. I will say that makes his strategy much less wasteful to his alliance. No, I would not say it was the best use for his arty. The best use would be to give it to an anvil after they've had their defenses wiped out (preferably defending an ally). On s1, there is an account that has the unique troop build arty in his cap combined with a small wheat arty in his hammer, giving him the potential to build the largest hammer travian has ever seen (that would be if DSP would stop beating the crap out of him ). That would also be a better use of it. The fact that it is the unique version as opposed to the small version makes this strategy much more viable, though I still would prefer a hammer village. Along those lines though, there is only one arty on the entire server that would match his scenario; hardly a scenario worth writing a guide on or basing your account around the chance of.


    I stated that his account was effective. I simply feel it was not as effective as it could have been. I'm not really sure what you're meta winning decisively means to the effectiveness of this strategy....unless you feel that the alliance was perfect with no room for improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by sublim3d View Post
    He never intended on having the largest hammer on the server, and it looks like he's still going to be in the top 3 WW hammers of the entire server. That's pretty damn impressive if you ask me. I ran a non cap hammer account and countless nights I was up trying to feed reins, call for reins and worry about the hammer going poof. In the end MS had a hammer that was about the exact same size in terms of attack power and he had wayyy more siege than us (granted that has nothing to do with a cap hammer) The only thing a non cap hammer would have changed with his hit is killing a bit more of the enemy defense, which will in no way affect the outcome of the server since we will declare victory in 2 days. So yes he had the potential to have a larger hammer but you neglect to mention the advantages to a cap hammer that he had all server long. Props MS, you played a big part in coordinating strikes and helping to secure a V victory all server long and it was a pleasure working along side you
    I could repeat what I just said, but instead I'll quote my last post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSteelCurtain View Post
    While I don't play there, I've kept track of the happenings on s8 and I will not deny that you've had one of the most effective accounts on that server. I am of the very firm opinion though that you could have had an even larger impact by following the proven strategy of keeping your hammer village beside your capital.
    ...and again, you're alliance being successful does not by any means you don't have things you could have done better.


    One point I will concede is that a cap hammer is easier to defend as it is only one village to defend as opposed to 2. Do keep in mind though the position your account will be put in if the enemy does break through your defenses and cats down your wheat fields, GGs, and GWs though....or if they 0 your cap

    Quote Originally Posted by spry View Post
    • Save a large amount of resources
    • Build siege at rate that you would if there was a "Great Workshop"

    These are advantages of the arty, not having a capital based hammer.

    Quote Originally Posted by spry View Post
    [*]Have a much easier time feeding your hammer
    Trade routes.

    Quote Originally Posted by spry View Post
    • Effectively build an unchiefable hammer
    • Build a hammer village that is much easier to defend, since you can consolidate defense that would be split between your hammer and capital in one village

    These are the actual advantages to a cap based hammer. If you feel they outweigh the advantages of having one based elsewhere, I personally would suggest you become an anvil.
    Last edited by TheSteelCurtain; 03-13-2010 at 05:21 PM.
    s1r4- Kismet -TRU
    s1r3- TheSteelCurtain -ONE

    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.php?t=70839
    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.php?t=72723

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcey View Post
    Kismet +TRU =

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raliegh View Post
    A nice read, and congrats to MS for a nicely run account and a nice hammer. However, a "Guide," to me, means a strategy that's reproducible across a range of accounts and servers. So anything that relies on multiple artifacts doesn't quite qualify in my mind.
    While, again, I do feel this guide is valuable, I think this might be a valid critique. It isn't as generalizable as guides to how to play Romans or what the Natar end-game is like. To remedy this, however, all we need to come up with is a different category to file this under. Information that provides you some guidance during the mid- and end- games are in short supply.

    In case other people haven't seen it, another post that can be filed under whatever category this gets filed under is Lord Aslan's guide to a mid-game hammer here.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSteelCurtain View Post
    These are advantages of the arty, not having a capital based hammer.
    Ok, good point, I concede defeat here.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSteelCurtain View Post
    Trade routes.
    Yeah, trade routes help, but so does having ~90k more wheat per hour going directly into your hammer.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSteelCurtain View Post
    These are the actual advantages to a cap based hammer. If you feel they outweigh the advantages of having one based elsewhere, I personally would suggest you become an anvil.
    See below.

    Quote Originally Posted by spry View Post
    Through all of those pro's, I think the con of having just an average sized hammer to play with is worth following the normal protocol of building your hammer village adjacent to your capital.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabbatine View Post

    In case other people haven't seen it, another post that can be filed under whatever category this gets filed under is Lord Aslan's guide to a mid-game hammer here.
    That would be a great guide... if it wasn't totally awful.

    I take it you didn't read through to the end where it largely was proven that it recommended an inefficient use of resources and not really an optimal plan at all. It boils down to:
    1) be the best farmer early (often a matter of luck with how the farms are around you),
    2) get the best cropper spot (contingent on #1)
    3) join the best alliance who will protect your defenseless heiney (lined up before server even starts)
    4) sim extremely inefficiently for 3 months with pure overemphasis on the capital fields losing out on tons of CP and resources (why?)
    5) burn a colossal stack of gold to try (and fail at) catching up with the players who developed their accounts efficiently.
    6) pray that nobody ever attacks you (despite how obviously vulnerable you are only having your spawn and distant capital for the first 2 server months) or else you will be ruined since you cannot effectively retaliate or defend


    I am doing some experimental simming on my current server, and I am fully aware of how vulnerable it is and how much it makes a difference when you do things non-optimally. If people think they are safe in their sim capitals... well even a much smaller aggressive player who starts with no troops at all can dominate a much larger and established player if they smell blood. A 2 village account with an isolated 150% cropper that hasn't settled a new village for 30-50 days and can be scouted to show piles of resources and no standing defense? Yum.

    Anyone who has been in a cropper fight knows it is critical to either promptly build an army out of that cropper (bah!) or get that 3rd villa ASAP to promptly build an army so you can eliminate local threats. Only exception is if you have the blindingly great luck to have your spawn right by the awesome cropper.

  19. #19

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    My main problem with MS's scheme has always been that it doesn't actually decrease the number of villages they needed to defend. Sure, the hammer was based in his capital, as was the wheat artifact, but the unique artifact was based in a different village. A troop build artifact doesn't usually suffer from a 24 hour downtime if you move it, but it does require a TC 20. I feel much safer with a large artifact stored in my capital which I would defend with equal vigor whether or not the artifact was there.

    But really, they set out to do it this way, and it worked out. I don't know if it is repeatable or not, but I do know that they wanted to try out this plan and it worked the first time.
    S6-r1 The_Chuck S8-r1 Lanie (night shift) S5-r3 Tyche (night shift) S7-r3 Chuckles (night shift)
    S2-r6 Tommo and rebuild S1-r7 Country (day shift) S5-r7(AEU) Office Space S19-r2 (SE) The Joker

  20. #20

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    I reckon it is still less traumatic to have an artifact stolen rather than a hammer chiefed, however. You can always retake the artifact too or pass them around.

    So the priority in defending villas is still a pretty significant shift for a cap hammer + artie account vs. traditional non-cap hammer non-artie account.

    I don't think I would ever use this guide, but I can understand wanting to use artifacts not for a numerical advantage but just to make life easier.

    Personally I'd just get a spy artie and then you can defend against chiefs muuuuuuch, much more easily. Cranny artie could help as well (I think, I don't remember if they randomize residence/palace attacks... I'll reread it later). Then you can life pretty happily and relatively safely.

    My ideal this next round is getting a spy-large and 2x speed-small (and borrow a great storage). Production and wheat reduction would be nice, but those can go to people doing crazy hammers. I'll just be a huge ghost+2 small chiefing hammers+a multiple lego+cata demolition teams.

  21. #21

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    Finally back from my little break


    Quote Originally Posted by TheSteelCurtain View Post
    Impossible? No. Difficult and unlikely? Yes. Likely enough to base your account around? If you're ok cutting your potential impact in half by not getting an arty and having a cap based hammer, sure.
    You nailed it in the head. This guide was never intended for players like yourself that are not willing to sacrifice troop amount.

    Don't mean to be rude but I need to refer you to my opening sentences.
    Outsidergua Wrote:
    First of all let me start by saving you some time.
    This thread is NOT for you
    - If you you are looking to build the largest hammer in the server.

    No, clearing a natar village is not that hard. The fact is though that there are only 5 artifacts per server that allow you to follow this guide's strategy. The small troop build arties are quickly being thought of as some of the most valuable small arties in the game, and thus are gobbled up quickly. You want to base your account around the chance that you might get lucky enough to get one of these arties from the natars?
    Again... if you read back you will realize that there are in fact 22 (Twenty two) artifacts in the server that woud allow you to accomplish the goals listed on this guide.
    11 Troop building artifacts (1 unique, 5 account wide and 5 small ones)
    11 wheat saving (1 unique, 5 account wide and 5 small ones)

    Mix them up at will.


    I think I've got a pretty good idea of how to steal arties from opponents. If you disagree, please view the threads linked in my signature. So now I ask if you'd like to base your account around the chance that you're skilled/lucky enough to steal an arty from an enemy?
    You don't need t be an elite player to steal an arty. Any player with at least one server of experience under their belt should be able to steal arties. In fact, there were a lot of first timers stealing arties this round.
    I also was very clear at the beginning of my guide when I said that this guide was mainly for EXPERIENCED players.
    Even then I offer my own advise through PM for those who still have doubts. Which btw, of the 35 PMs I've received about this guide only 1 person has requested help regarding strategy on how to steal an arty.

    The fact that it is the unique version as opposed to the small version makes this strategy much more viable,
    Again, from above
    11 Troop building artifacts (1 unique, 5 account wide and 5 small ones)
    11 wheat saving (1 unique, 5 account wide and 5 small ones)

    Mix them up at will.


    though I still would prefer a hammer village.
    Bingo, you are mainly basing your criticism on a personal preference. And that's ok, just remember that other people have different preferences.


    Along those lines though, there is only one arty on the entire server that would match his scenario; hardly a scenario worth writing a guide on or basing your account around the chance of.
    Just to recap.
    My hammer was NOT a stroke of luck. We didn't "just come across" these arties.
    Before the server begun we knew what our strategy was. We wanted a cap hammer, we wanted troop building arty and we wanted a wheat arty.
    And that's what I'm trying to convey to all of those reading this guide. Set your goals and then plan your strategy according to what the server presents you.


    One point I will concede is that a cap hammer is easier to defend as it is only one village to defend as opposed to 2. Do keep in mind though the position your account will be put in if the enemy does break through your defenses and cats down your wheat fields, GGs, and GWs though....or if they 0 your cap
    By my count there were around 15 hammertowns and +40 15c capitals croplocked or zeroed.
    Both sides were very aggressive faking one hard and then going for the other. And that's how Travian should be played.
    If you are playing on a server in which you are not under constat fear of having your hammertown chiefed then I don't want to be on that server.

    But if you are able to focus all of your defense on one single town. What happens?
    This happens:

    Yeah, I had plenty of people attacking me all server long. All of my defensive points come from defending my capital only. Not a single time I was worried about defending anything else whatsoever.
    My hammer went completely untouched all server long. (Except for the couple of times I screwed up on attacks of my own that is)

    These are advantages of the arty, not having a capital based hammer.
    These all are advantages of using the arties in function of a cap hammer.


    If you feel they outweigh the advantages of having one based elsewhere, I personally would suggest you become an anvil.
    Again... I'd like to be very clear at the beginning of my thread.
    My guide DOES NOT aim at helping people build the largest hammer in the server.

    - My guide aims at helping people that want to save a little $ that normally guys like you spend Gold on "Trade Routes" Yeah, it's 2 gold a route and you'll need more than just 1 route a day per village.
    Not to mention that you have to be a gold member (90 gold) and the routes themselves expire every 7 days.

    - My guide aims at trying to help people avoid that difficult decision "Should I defend my cap or hammer" when the reins just don't seem enough.


    In all, you could've probably save a lot of time yourself by summarizing your thoughts in a single sentence.
    "I like hammertowns because they give you bigger hammers"
    Which btw I think 90% of the users might agree with your perception. I'm sure though, that there is a 10% out there looking for options and hopefully I'm there to provide them with one.


    At everybody else still reading:
    One final thought, I NEVER once had to feed that hammer more than once every 9 hours during the entire server.
    It actually didn't even hit negative numbers until it reached 180k wheat consumption.

    There are lots of people that kinda stop caring for the server just because they grow exhausted of feeding their hammer throughout the server.

    Again, like I said on my original post.
    - I wasn't one of the elite Robbers
    - I didn't own a top account
    - certainly spent less gold than most people with hammertowns.
    - became a top defender by eliminating a target for the enemy.
    - Ended up with one of the largest hammers in the server and top 3 attacker.

    By contrast,
    I knew that there would be lots of hammers with bigger troop counts than mine.


    So.. if you are open to the idea of not having one of the biggest hammers in the server this is the thread for you.
    If not, then there are plenty of "Hammer building guides" out there.

    Which ever the choice is, good luck!
    Last edited by Outsidergua; 03-15-2010 at 09:56 PM.
    Из России с любовью
    s1r7 Hammer 1
    s1r7 Hammer 2
    S2r6 Mr. Noodle/ FEAR 2WW hits not saved
    s5r5 Hammer 1 Won
    s5r5 Hammer 2 Won
    s8r1 Cap Hammers are back Won
    S2R2 Outsidergua Lost
    Guide to Cap Hammers

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    I don't remember if they randomize residence/palace attacks
    They do
    I smash you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron D'Holbach View Post
    Just because I tell you something, doesn't make it true.

  23. #23

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    One last suggestion I should've added to this guide was to make sure you build a very real "Fake Hammertowns"
    This should be very simple. Any good offensive player always has a few mini hammers handy.
    If one of those mini-hammers comes out of a town next to your capital and you are able to avoid using your cap hammer. Most people always think that your main hammer comes out of your "Fake hammertown".
    Which hopefully will provide you with some good cover in case of being heavily attacked.
    Из России с любовью
    s1r7 Hammer 1
    s1r7 Hammer 2
    S2r6 Mr. Noodle/ FEAR 2WW hits not saved
    s5r5 Hammer 1 Won
    s5r5 Hammer 2 Won
    s8r1 Cap Hammers are back Won
    S2R2 Outsidergua Lost
    Guide to Cap Hammers

  24. #24

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    MS...Very well written....A guide that you put to use and it worked VERY well for you... For those not involved with S8 .. MS had one of the last 2 largest threats waiting around at end game and no one knew where it was going a frightening fact INDEED!!!

    His strategy worked for him, maybe it wouldnt work for everyone but anyone can take away good points from this well thoughtout and written guide! If you cant... then you should have stopped on MS's first paragraph...
    US5R3 - Krash - KwtrsN - Minka Wins!
    US3R4 - Zevea - GOB - The_Druid Wins!
    US5R4- Krash- KoN- One Proud Dad!!! - GNR Wins!
    US2R6 - Krash - Bacon -Nimmo wins .. props to a strong opposing team..
    US8R1 - Krash - FC&P - Mako Wins!
    US1R7 - DJIV - CCU - Care Wins!

  25. #25
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    I've been waiting for this Outsidergua

    For all of you who don't believe those blithering idiots from the south, Outsidergua WAS one of the biggest threats for my team. We knew he'd always come with good numbers, and he'd be smart with how he used his hammer. That's an important thing to remember here; only follow this guide if you are experienced and know how to properly use a hammer.

    Anyway, once he got to about 30k ish axe, I made this post in the LoNG forums. Since, kirilloid has undergone some changes, and the tool is abit different, but nonetheless, here it is.

    Ok, so we are all aware that Master00Sniper is one of TNT's heaviest hitters. He has a nice setup of a capital hammer, with the 1/2 troop build artifact. We seem to keep on taking hits from him in which we lose bundles of troops, so I'm posting this to help you realize what we're really up against.

    So, in a capital hammer, there isn't the possibility of GB/GS. To determine the number of troops he produces in one week, we simply need to run the numbers through in an offense calculator, but cut the build time in half. So, here is what he produces, assuming 24/7 building, in just one week.



    As you can see, it's the exact same as someone running GB/GS 24/7, but with a few twists.

    A) Siege. Since there is no Great Siege Workshop, his production of siege is twice as fast as any hammer that is unaffected by an artifact. In the above image, I have him producing solely catapults, but if he decided to go the way of the ram hammer, it'd be a sure demolition of any WW wall.

    B) Cost. As I've already stated, he builds the same number of cavalry and infantry units as someone running GB/GS 24/7, but double the siege. For having the same production rate, he pays MUCH less. Here's what he saves wekly:

    Wood - 1,351,369
    Clay - 1,365,740
    Iron - 1,877,993
    Wheat - 581,626
    Total - 5,176,728

    As you can see, that's quite a bit of resources he saves weekly. With this, I wouldn't be surprised to see a decent auxiliary hammer, or maybe a good sized anvil -- or both.

    Now, I ran through some simulations to see what happens if we give him certain allotted amounts of time, assuming no troop loss due to starvation, fighting, or production hold-ups:

    5 Weeks


    10 Weeks


    20 Weeks


    So, as you can see, this is a hammer, and really an account, that we can't take lightly. If you see an incoming from Master00Sniper, check what the last known troop count was for him, use this site to determine the expected troop count, and then ask nicely for lots and lots of reins Wink

    Feel free to check any of my math, logic, or anything else. I hope this helps us kill this hammer.
    My first hammer: s8r1 - mhisti
    Not my first hammer: s1r4 - Loved1

    s1r7 - Ifrit 3,111,384 offense points

    [6:49:56 PM] Bugzy: Let's report Ifrit for genocide

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsidergua View Post
    Finally back from my little break
    You nailed it in the head. This guide was never intended for players like yourself that are not willing to sacrifice troop amount.

    Don't mean to be rude but I need to refer you to my opening sentences.
    It's also not intended for you if you want to be able to rebuild your hammer as quickly as possible after losing part or all of it. If you're goal is not to have a large WW killer OR to have a hammer that you use often that will inevitably run into some defense, then you're not looking to be as effective as possible with your hammer. In which case, you should play anvil (anvils are fine having cap based mini hammers).

    So I know you're about to come back and respond with another comment saying "OOOO, you're wrong because look at all the damage I did on s8! An enemy leader wrote a guide to try to slow me down!". This is true. This is more of a result of your personal skill as an offensive player as opposed to the effectiveness of having a capital based hammer. You can build troops much more quickly from a non capital village than a capital. Attack per build time is the most important statistic for a hammer. You're cutting your most important statistic in half by basing your hammer from your capital, plain and simple. No, I do not care that your arty is letting you still produce at a speed comparable to most players hammer villages. You're still producing at about half the speed as your individual account could be.



    Quote Originally Posted by Outsidergua View Post
    Again... if you read back you will realize that there are in fact 22 (Twenty two) artifacts in the server that woud allow you to accomplish the goals listed on this guide.
    11 Troop building artifacts (1 unique, 5 account wide and 5 small ones)
    11 wheat saving (1 unique, 5 account wide and 5 small ones)

    Mix them up at will.
    Ok, so could you please explain to me how having one of the wheat reduction arties early on make you feel it makes sense to build a cap based hammer? Not only are you halving your potential troop building speed, you're doubling your capacity to hold troops. This is about as big a waste of the wheat reduction arties as I can imagine.

    The 4 large troop building arties only let you produce at 3/4 the speed of normal players. You'll be way behind the production speed everyone else can have.

    On top of that, the small troop builders are much better used being passed around the alliance for reasons I've already mentions.

    So really.....that leaves 1 arty that makes it at all viable to follow your guide, and even then I feel strongly that there are better uses for it. I apologize for stating that there were 5 in my previous post.



    Quote Originally Posted by Outsidergua View Post

    Bingo, you are mainly basing your criticism on a personal preference. And that's ok, just remember that other people have different preferences.
    Yes, my personal preference is to make my account as effective as possible with the time I have available to play it. It is a fact that this guide does not let you do that. If your preference is to have a less effective account, then yes this guide is for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Outsidergua View Post

    But if you are able to focus all of your defense on one single town. What happens?
    This happens:

    Yeah, I had plenty of people attacking me all server long. All of my defensive points come from defending my capital only. Not a single time I was worried about defending anything else whatsoever.
    My hammer went completely untouched all server long. (Except for the couple of times I screwed up on attacks of my own that is)

    Ok, since it seems you really have a thing for playing the "Mine's bigger!" game. This is from s1, which started after s8 and has not yet entered endgame
    Attachment 3230

    So along your lines of argument, I can say I got all those defensive points because I have a capital and a seperate hammer village, thus making my strategy ~150000 points better than yours, right?

    Sorry, but the fact is that we each have a bunch of defensive points on the accounts we play because
    our alliances are awesome and were able to defend their members when necessary. Is defending a cap based hammer a little easier? Yes. Is it worth the disadvantages it brings? No




    You've said some other things that I'd like to debate, but at this point I've already spent way too much time doing so. Anyone who hasn't realized by now that they will be better off using a separate hammer village isn't going to change their mind from more reasoning.

    Great server on s8 Outsidergua. I wish you'd realize your full potential on future servers, but even following this strategy you're still one of the better players out there. Just don't try convincing anyone I'm allied with to start making cap based hammers unless they're anvils.
    s1r4- Kismet -TRU
    s1r3- TheSteelCurtain -ONE

    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.php?t=70839
    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.php?t=72723

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcey View Post
    Kismet +TRU =

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