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Thread: Unit Comparison Faq

  1. #1
    Villager Mr. Midnight's Avatar
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    Default Unit Comparison Faq

    After browsing these .us forums this past few months, it has come to my attention that a comparison of raw stats between all the major units does not appear to be in the guide section, nor floating about.

    So I decided to share some calculations I formulated awhile back for personal use. I think this data may come in handy to newer players or act as good reference to older players.

    I'll briefly explain my math basis below the charts. The chart of data is below, it should be intuitive if you read my explanation below. If you dont want to read to math basis...bigger number=better.

    Now, my three ranking categories are upkeep, cost, and time. Within those categories I will compare attack, infantry defense, and cavalry defense. I also separate cavalry and infantry.

    I posted the charts as pictures, as it would literally take me probably over an hour just to align the text properly. If you would like a text version, PM me and I'll send you one.











    ----------------Hammer Makeups based on 24/7 production of equal level barracks/stable

    --------TEUTONS


    -Hammer makeup: 1 axe to .41 TK
    -Hammer attack ratio: 49% Infantry :51% Cavalry

    --------GAULS

    -Hammer makeup: 1 sword to .46 Haeduan
    -Hammer attack ratio: 51% Infantry :49% Cavalry
    -Ghost Hammer of .581 TT to every 1 sword in your hammer.(sep villa than hammer)

    --------ROMAN

    -Hammer makeup: 1 imperian to .55 EC
    -Hammer attack ratio: 42% Infantry: 58% Cavalry

    with HDT20...
    -Hammer makeup: 1 imperian to .68 EC
    -Hammer attack ratio: 36% Infantry: 64% Cavalry



    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    EXPLANATION OF MATH

    UPKEEP

    The XXXX:Upkeep ratio is often cited when comparing units, as it is the most easily calculated and offers a level ground for comparison between cavalry and infantry. This number shows how expensive it is to maintain an army of that given type. While wheat efficiency is nice, it really doesn't become an issue until late game when hammers/anvils number are very large.

    ex:
    -Attack:Upkeep
    3](47)Haeduan

    This means a Haeduan is ranked 3rd in the attack to upkeep ratio among cavalry. The number would be calculated as such: attack(140)/upkeep in crop(3).

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------


    COST

    The XXXX:cost ratio offers a strong comparison of units until end game time when the physical cost of the unit is quite irrelevant and time is the only restriction. But for the majority of the game, these ratios hold alot of weight in how to use troops.

    ex:
    -Attack:Cost
    5](.071)Haeduan

    This means a haeduan is ranked 5th in the attack to cost ratio among cavlary. The number would be calculated as such: attack(140)/total cost(1972). The number gained would mean "a Haeduan costs 1 resources for every .071 attack power it provides"

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------


    TIME

    The XXXX:time ratio is arguably the most effective ratio when end game comes around. At this point in the game, while you must monitor your wheat upkeep for say a WW hammer, most people simply keep their barracks/stable going 24/7 and all that delays growth is time. These numbers are counted in attack per hour based on a lvl 1 barracks and lvl 1 stable.

    ex:
    -Attack:Time
    4](162)Haeduan

    This means a Haeduan is ranked 4th in the attack to time ratio among cavlary. The number would be calculated as such: attack(140)/training time in hours (.866). The result gives you the attack points you get per hour with that unit based off a lvl 1 barracks/stable.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------





    NOTES
    *I left seige, scouting, and chief units out. Their ratios would have been WAY lower than any other unit so I deemed them negligible. Those units do not make up a large portion of a hammer or anvil. I also left out the brewery modified spearmen attack data as the difference was also negligible.
    *(brw)= with level 10 brewery.
    *(hdt)= with Horse Drinking Trough of appropriate level.
    *(hdtxx)=with Horse Drinking Trough of level xx
    *There is a degree of overlap with the calculations/formula post in the guidelines section (http://forum.travian.us/showthread.php?t=3119) but nothing as consolidated as i have here is presented in that post.
    *I ignored blacksmith/armory upgrades as they are, for the most part, percentage based and affect equally across the board. What variations between units that do occur, would, most likely, not effect particular ranks among groups.

    Hope this is found to be useful. If further explanation or corrections need be made, make note of where/how and I'll fix it.
    Last edited by Mr. Midnight; 04-07-2010 at 03:02 AM.
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  2. #2
    Artisan Lord Of The Morning's Avatar
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    Thank you Mr. Midnight

    If this isn't already, can one of you fine MOD types sticky this somewhere good?
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  3. #3

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    Nice job, Mr. Midnight.

    Thanks

  4. #4
    Philosopher Greenman's Avatar
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    Gaul Cavalry really takes the cake for defense.

    Thanks for doing the math, Mr. Midnight.
    Like riding a bike... Only with more typing and less riding a bike
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  5. #5

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    I will point to this the next time an EI vs EC thread shows up.

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    Philosopher thereter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD70 View Post
    I will point to this the next time an EI vs EC thread shows up.
    Concerning that,
    doesn't an EI @ lvl 20 have more attack per upkeep than an EC @ 20? (assuming HDT)
    Past servers:
    thereter of Flock from UK server 1 Round 3 and thereter/Pond of thAC0/QoD from US server 3, Round 2
    thereter of Flock usx round 8: Part of the hits on Hydro: My first and last endgame hammer.
    4655 @ 1000JAN11 EST

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by thereter View Post
    Concerning that,
    doesn't an EI @ lvl 20 have more attack per upkeep than an EC @ 20? (assuming HDT)
    According to the chart they are the same.

  8. #8
    Philosopher thereter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD70 View Post
    According to the chart they are the same.
    The chart doesn't include upgrades though.
    Past servers:
    thereter of Flock from UK server 1 Round 3 and thereter/Pond of thAC0/QoD from US server 3, Round 2
    thereter of Flock usx round 8: Part of the hits on Hydro: My first and last endgame hammer.
    4655 @ 1000JAN11 EST

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    Villager Mr. Midnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thereter View Post
    Concerning that,
    doesn't an EI @ lvl 20 have more attack per upkeep than an EC @ 20? (assuming HDT)
    EC@HDT20 consumes 3 crop. 180/3 = 60 atck/crop

    EI@20 consumes 2 crop. 120/2 = 60 atck/crop

    If blacksmith were to be included(in addition to HDT), EI would edge out the EC in terms of atck/upkeep. But only by about 1.4%

    *edit checked math
    Last edited by Mr. Midnight; 04-07-2010 at 01:45 PM.
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  10. #10
    Philosopher thereter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Midnight View Post
    EC@HDT20 consumes 3 crop. 180/3 = 60 atck/crop

    EI@20 consumes 2 crop. 120/2 = 60 atck/crop

    If blacksmith were to be included(in addition to HDT), EI would edge out the EC in terms of atck/upkeep. But only by about 1.4%

    *edit checked math
    Yeah, that's what I was saying.
    Past servers:
    thereter of Flock from UK server 1 Round 3 and thereter/Pond of thAC0/QoD from US server 3, Round 2
    thereter of Flock usx round 8: Part of the hits on Hydro: My first and last endgame hammer.
    4655 @ 1000JAN11 EST

  11. #11
    Villager Mr. Midnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thereter View Post
    Yeah, that's what I was saying.
    To make sure there aren't other changes, I did the math for cavalry modified by lv20 blacksmith. The switch you noted between EI and EC in terms of attack/upkeep is the only rank change that occurs. There were no changes in the attack/time attack/cost ratios. This being the case, I'm not gonna bother posting the new numbers i crunched.

    It should be noted that as infantry are all the same upkeep, blacksmith/armory upgrades will benefit them uniformly, so those numbers are accurate no matter what level bonus they are receiving.

    If any other oddities are noticed, please feel free to point them out.
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    Likely the only faq I will ever write...
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Midnight View Post
    It should be noted that as infantry are all the same upkeep, blacksmith/armory upgrades will benefit them uniformly, so those numbers are accurate no matter what level bonus they are receiving.
    Since the upgrade depends on both the upkeep and the attack value, infantry aren't really anymore uniform than cavalry. Units that are less efficient (attack or defense per upkeep) get a bigger relative upgrade. But you are right that for the most part, the upgrades aren't enough to change the order. The only shift other than breaking the EI/EC tie is in swords vs. haeds. With level 20 BS upgrades Haeduan are more attack/time than swords, so rather than 51/49 in favor of infantry, a gallic hammer running 24/7 would be 49.4/50.6 (Of course when you add catapults in, it becomes 52% infantry/48% cavalry).

    While there wasn't a post showing all of this, you can calculate it pretty easily on kirilloid's site (though many people don't get beyond the warsim). He doesn't have the option for brewery though.

    (All of these with HDT 20 and Blacksmith/Armory 20)
    Attack/upkeep
    Attack/cost
    Attack/build time
    Infantry defense/upkeep
    Infantry defense/cost
    Infantry defense/time
    Cavalry defense/upkeep
    Cavalry defense/cost
    Cavalry defense/time
    Total defense/upkeep
    Total defense/cost
    Total defense/time

    One month of troop building:
    Swords/Haeds/Trebs (4.697 million attack)
    TTs instead of Haeds(4.274 million)
    Imps/EC/Cats(5.245 million)
    EI instead of EC(4.927 million)
    Axe/TK/Cats(5.172 million)
    Mace instead of Axe(5.559 million)
    Mace/TK/Ram with Brewery*(6.366 million)

    *Brewery numbers simulated by checking the box for 10% offense bonus
    S6-r1 The_Chuck S8-r1 Lanie (night shift) S5-r3 Tyche (night shift) S7-r3 Chuckles (night shift)
    S2-r6 Tommo and rebuild S1-r7 Country (day shift) S5-r7(AEU) Office Space S19-r2 (SE) The Joker

  13. #13
    Philosopher thereter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tineren View Post
    (All of these with HDT 20 and Blacksmith/Armory 20)
    Attack/upkeep
    Attack/cost
    Attack/build time
    Infantry defense/upkeep
    Infantry defense/cost
    Infantry defense/time
    Cavalry defense/upkeep
    Cavalry defense/cost
    Cavalry defense/time
    Total defense/upkeep
    Total defense/cost
    Total defense/time

    One month of troop building:
    Swords/Haeds/Trebs (4.697 million attack)
    TTs instead of Haeds(4.274 million)
    Imps/EC/Cats(5.245 million)
    EI instead of EC(4.927 million)
    Axe/TK/Cats(5.172 million)
    Mace instead of Axe(5.559 million)
    Mace/TK/Ram with Brewery*(6.366 million)

    *Brewery numbers simulated by checking the box for 10% offense bonus
    Kirilloid has some bugs or something to work out, because instead of 1 month, it links to the default, which is 1 hour.
    Past servers:
    thereter of Flock from UK server 1 Round 3 and thereter/Pond of thAC0/QoD from US server 3, Round 2
    thereter of Flock usx round 8: Part of the hits on Hydro: My first and last endgame hammer.
    4655 @ 1000JAN11 EST

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD70
    I will point to this the next time an EI vs EC thread shows up.
    Exactly - later in the server, when it's not the cost that really matters, but rather the Attack value generated per unit of time, EC's are the best.

  15. #15
    Consul Wren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PorkLoin View Post
    Exactly - later in the server, when it's not the cost that really matters, but rather the Attack value generated per unit of time, EC's are the best.
    Yes, but it's close. EC produce 118% atk/time of EIs, but EI are better in every other category.
    Retired.
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  16. #16
    Villager Mr. Midnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Yes, but it's close. EC produce 118% atk/time of EIs, but EI are better in every other category.
    "Every other category" amounts to a 1% better upkeep and 2% cost ratio.... And EI doesn't edge out EC in upkeep efficiency until HDT anyhow... All in all, I think it's pretty much conventional wisdom to use EI's until you have the economy to churn on EC 24/7, and I think the data definitely supports that concept.
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    Likely the only faq I will ever write...
    Unit Efficiency Guide

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  17. #17
    Consul Wren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Midnight View Post
    "Every other category" amounts to a 1% better upkeep and 2% cost ratio
    basically yes.
    EI has 104% atk/resources
    EI has 101% atk/wheat

    However, the HDT lvls 16-20 are nastily expensive, and could certainly lead a player to pick EI (remember, you need HDTs in storage villages too).
    Retired.
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