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Thread: Travian.....for beginners? (Forum)

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Guess there really is nothing new under the sun.
    But there is. The new thing is an awareness, that the forum has died. An awareness that the forum has become a negative asset to the game itself. Simple point - The percentage of posters/readers relative to gamers have gone down tremendously, which proves forum has lost attractiveness within the gamer community. The proposition that it's because of dwindling numbers of players there are less posters is simply wrong. Forum has been corrupted and it's easy to see for anyone who can see above his own nose tip.

    It has also become quite clear what has killed the forum. It's the trolling and the rep system that rewards the trolling. You cannot remove the trolling without making the moderation too excessive and thus kill the forum by other means. Removing the rep system on the other hand, would take away the rewards for trolling, and it would leave forum members with the only other tool to regulate the forum ... the ignore button. The ignore button would then weed out the undesired, and that in a much gentler way that wouldn't have ppl running away from the forum.

    Edit - In theory the rep system would be a great thing if it wasn't for the trolling and all the hateful and obscenely perverted remarks that gets rewarded through the rep system. But this is the real cyberworld and the rep system doesn't work to the advantage of the game.

    Also the rep system isn't democratic, it doesn't bestow equal powers on the participants, and whatever anyone thinks about rights for leetness and seniority, most ppl just aren't ready to accept that trolls are better forum posters and should have more powers to relegate the local currency in green and red dotties.

    And about comments accompanying derps - who in their right mind believes, that comments so obscene and laden with sexual innuendo, it would never see the light of day in the real world, is a plus to the game and lures in more gamers? Only a total idiot would believe that, but the reality is, that those comments are commonplace and they do turn ppl away from the game.

    One thing to do right now is to take away the comments. I don't care how much some loves to comment with their derps - it has no positive effect on bringing more gamers in - it does however turn gamers away. And if someone can't enjoy the forum without having the opportunity to be an absolute jerk in his comments, and chooses to walk away to somewhere where perverted and hateful comments are more appreciated, so be it. Travian will be better off for it.
    Last edited by Erazer; 07-15-2011 at 09:35 AM.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erazer View Post
    One thing to do right now is to take away the comments. I don't care how much some loves to comment with their derps - it has no positive effect on bringing more gamers in - it does however turn gamers away. And if someone can't enjoy the forum without having the opportunity to be an absolute jerk in his comments, and chooses to walk away to somewhere where perverted and hateful comments are more appreciated, so be it. Travian will be better off for it.
    You can't take away the comments. I talk in parables. You have been warned.

    One day a man with great intentions emerges from his lab with a tool to improve the world. It is amazing and can do wonderful things. It can make people better, speak nicer to one another, make them more helpful. The inventer has such hope. He puts them into production and gives everyone in the city one... including the criminals. We will call it "The TOY."

    Well, the path to Hell is paved with good intentions. The criminals have figured out how it works. When you see something you like, you aim the toy at the person and it makes their toy more powerful. When someone does something you don't like, you aim the toy at the person and it makes their toy less powerful.

    Everyone was using the new toys. The criminals figured out how to make their toys the most powerful in the land. If you do something funny in front of those with powerful toys, they give you more power. If you aim your toy at the police and public officials in a good way, they think you are great. Meanwhile when a buddy robs a bank you make his toy more powerful. The police say "no, don't do that" to your friend and you say "we have toys too" and they are on the payroll. Then when you steal a car later you have 5 of your criminal friends around to give you kudos for it.

    The kids in the city see what is going on. They want powerful toys. To get one they just have to hold up a store or steal candy from a baby to get it. Then another comes along and spray paints the word "spam" on a wall. The criminals don't like that and force him into a dumpster.

    All the while the city officials are convinced that the toy is great and can really help the city. Can really help the city. Can. But it isn't.

    You would think if you just took the comments away it would fix this? You're so wrong.

    Right now people aim the toy with purpose. It gives and takes power. If you take the comments it is like taking the purpose out of it. The system will be invalid. It is null and void.

    The only option, in this reporters opinion, is to take all the toys away. You can't "save" the rep system or make it work the way you want to. Removing the comments removes purpose.

    edit: I should add...

    You think by taking away the rep comments you are taking the bullets out of the gun. You aren't. The bullets are the + and - points. If you want the bullets, make the rep value +1 and -1. The trolls will still control the system, but it won't have as much sting.

    When you take out the comments what you are really doing it taking the sights off. People will shoot blindly without purpose. It is better to have a very powerful shot well aimed than to have a bunch of powerful shots going off randomly.

    Think about it. Would you want a skilled marksman on a roof top taking aim at one person with purpose or would you want a madman with a machine gun in each hand standing in the middle of the street randomly firing.

    If you want the sniper, leave the comments.
    If you want the madman, take the comments and leave the points.
    If you want the sniper but want his shot to be like a paintball hit, take the rep power.
    If you don't want anyone shoot anything, take the guns/the rep system.
    Last edited by Ms. Evil; 07-15-2011 at 03:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Eb0l is the alpha and the omega
    The eternal pumpkin queen, and mother of gerbils
    So it was written and so it must forever be

  3. #43
    Consul Wren's Avatar
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    Erazer, all of your points are wrong - unaware, confused, misattributed, or twisted. It's great, I guess, that you're trying to find the problems in the community, but you don't get it.

    Rep comments have long been the purview of moderators, if you have such a huge problem with those you've been left, report it to them.
    Retired.
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  4. #44
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    This thread:
    tl;dr.

  5. #45
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    @ Miss Evil - It's cool. I believe Failcake is honest about his intentions, so I gave my honest opinion. We all did and then FC will have that to chew on. He has become quite the serious guy of late and I wish him good luck. And thx for the parable. I agree on most.

    @ Wren - Ok, you were abused with a thesaurus. Sad story. Good luck to you too.

    @ Rhyme - tl:dr should be the first thing a mod is told never to write. I'm not surprised it isn't so.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Erazer, all of your points are wrong - unaware, confused, misattributed, or twisted. It's great, I guess, that you're trying to find the problems in the community, but you don't get it.

    Rep comments have long been the purview of moderators, if you have such a huge problem with those you've been left, report it to them.
    Shouldn't you be even keeled since you're sucking up to everyone 'important' for a position in Travian?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erazer View Post
    @ Wren - Ok, you were abused with a thesaurus. Sad story. Good luck to you too.

    @ Rhyme - tl:dr should be the first thing a mod is told never to write. I'm not surprised it isn't so.
    And you're ******** about trolls. Classic.
    Retired.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erazer View Post
    @ Rhyme - tl:dr should be the first thing a mod is told never to write. I'm not surprised it isn't so.
    I'll let somebody else explain to you why my post was hysterically funny. But rest assured, my post was hysterically funny.

  9. #49
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    Ok, folks, here is my opinion. The forum was an important part of me learning to play, BUT at the same time, I HATED the way I saw many posters being treated. There is a reason that I started reading the forum in late March, but didn't bother to get a forum account until late that next fall.

    Personally I do not like the trolls, some of that, I am sure is my age (I am OLD). I like folks to be respectful to each other.

    What is bad, is if an alliance does not have those that are GOOD at trolling, they get chewed up on the forum. There is a reason that some alliances will have gag orders on their members posting in the embassy areas. BUT that reduces their visits to the forum and it also reduces their chance to stop and help someone that is new.

    I really just don't have the time to scroll through post after post of non sense and even faked BRs, to find something useful.

    Rep would be good and useful in the non embassy areas. I believe that almost every neg rep that came with a comment (for me that is high percentage) came from someone that didn't like me. It was just another way to hurt someone, and one that comes with NO Risk.

    this an example of what I get "been wanting to derep you again for a while
    "
    Last edited by Cu Ruadh; 07-16-2011 at 08:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    And you're ******** about trolls. Classic.
    You think that's some? Oh my, you really are living in a world apart. You have no idea what's going down on these forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyme View Post
    I'll let somebody else explain to you why my post was hysterically funny. But rest assured, my post was hysterically funny.
    Allrite, Ill laugh hysterically with you. Im friendly like that.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyme View Post
    I'll let somebody else explain to you why my post was hysterically funny. But rest assured, my post was hysterically funny.
    Rhyme has a tendancy to say what others can say in 10 letters in ten pages. I laughed when I saw tl;dr.

    Irish, I liked your post too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Eb0l is the alpha and the omega
    The eternal pumpkin queen, and mother of gerbils
    So it was written and so it must forever be

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erazer View Post
    You think that's some? Oh my, you really are living in a world apart. You have no idea what's going down on these forums.
    trololololol
    Retired.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erazer View Post
    ...you really are living in a world apart. You have no idea what's going down on these forums.
    Says the guy with 241 posts to the guy with 7194...
    MokMonster does not support, condone or agree with anything written in this post.
    Any suggestions to the contrary are purely unintentional.
    (Unless you agreed with it -- then I totally said it)

  14. #54
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    Holy crap, it really is that many.

    That's kind of disgusting...
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  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Holy crap, it really is that many.

    That's kind of disgusting...
    You are a post w****!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Eb0l is the alpha and the omega
    The eternal pumpkin queen, and mother of gerbils
    So it was written and so it must forever be

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
    I don't think that the heart of the problem with getting new posters to the forum is rep. I'm sure it encourages or dissuades some people to an extent, but I see the real problem being that it is usually a bad strategic decision for a new player to post in the embassy areas of the forum. Using the forums to find an alliance isn't a good game decision, so it's counterproductive for new players to post in that area. If their alliance is being trashed in the P&D section, a new player jumping the alliance's defense generally just makes the alliance look even worse. I remember a past forum user who didn't like his alliance being trashed in one of the embassies and so he posted a thread with battle reports of "hammers" that his alliance had defended against. Any moderately experienced player could glance at the reports and realize that those were probably spawn troops or leftovers of throw-aways that had been damaged, so he just encouraged the belief that his alliance didn't know what a mediocre hammer at that stage of the server would be. It didn't bring the respect to his alliance that he thought it would. If he were a little more open to learning using the forums, he would have realized that his alliance wasn't particularly good, but he simply got more defensive. So, it was entertaining reading, but he didn't seem to learn from it and he didn't do his alliance any favors by defending it.

    Don't get me wrong; there is good information on the forums for new players/posters. There are very detailed guides (which sadly become out-of-date very quickly with the changes in the game), lots of questions/answers in the questions forum, and even a newbie corner for people who do want to ask very basic questions. However, none of that increases the activity of the forums in terms of new people for established players to interact with.

    I like the long-winded emo-rant as much as the next forum reader/lurker. However, those people rarely become long-standing, active forum members. They also seem to find their way to the forums without much encouragement.

    Skilled players/alliances already know how to work the forums. Mediocre alliances tend to have forum silence policies, which while it decreases the entertainment value for all of us, it's probably a good call strategically. As players become better, many of them are already in the habit of avoiding the forums due to the policies of past alliances.

    I'm being unhelpful as I'm not offering any solutions to the situation, but I see a lot of discussion about rep and I'm not sure that's really the determining factor for people. While I'd enjoy more active forums, I'm not convinced that encouraging new players to post in the forums is necessarily in their best interests.

    I'm not a terribly active forum poster, but I do read the forums regularly. My lack of posting isn't for any negative reasons. I have no forum tales of woe to complain about. When I get derped, it tends to be for an understandable reason. I don't post all that much because propaganda isn't a strong suit of mine and that is the cornerstone of the embassy sections, in my opinion.

  17. #57

  18. #58

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    Travian at Comic Con.

    Just an idea.

  19. #59

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    Knotty wins the thread.

    Every Internet forum has the same basic, unwritten rule: lurk first; get the lay of the land before charging in and shouting your opinion to anyone that will listen. I've seen the situation knotty described play out many times, and each time the public shaming that ensued could have easily been avoided if the 'victim' had just done some reading around first.

    New people are fine, I don't have a problem with them, and always appreciate a fresh perspective. But when you post something idiotic, I don't care if you have 4 posts or 3,000, I will give you **** for it.

    As far as trolls driving away new members: I don't think any of us have that intention. In some ways, some of us could probably tone it down a bit, but if one of my 'Hi, I'm meatball' posts actually drive someone away, they probably weren't going to last very long anyway.

    And the rep system, well, I can take it or leave it. I don't think it adds anything useful, and people here might have a point regarding its discouraging some posters from voicing their opinions. On the other hand, I have a lot of rep so It obviously works.

    Actually, I do like the 'Thanks' idea, or whatever that was. I myself would prefer a system that rewards individual posts, rather than the person. Whether it be for insight, or particularly useful information, or just a hilarious post/troll, it just makes more sense to me to highlight a specific post. For those so inclined, they can still stroke their Internet ego by pointing out how many 'thanks' their post(s) have received.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Evil View Post
    The trolls haven't changed a bit. It is the way the forum is run that has changed.

    The introduction of the reputation system started the downward spiral of participants. Before, no one had more "power" than the other. Now the troll have the "power" thru the rep system. The newbies with 100 posts or less are judged as not of value and dismissed. You start with 10 rep points. If I derp a new person they are an instant beggar. It isn't a nice welcome to the forums.

    The fix for this is +1/-1 or +2/-1 and that power is universal for all users. Each person's rep power is the same and thus balancing the way it works.

    The rep system is useless without comments. It is useless without a balance in power. It is useless unless a new member can quickly grow in reputation as that is our currency here.
    I resemble this remark. God the forums sucked for the first couple of months, but as my sig denotes, I learned some of my stuff from one of the best Travian Trolls on the planet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentRuin View Post
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  21. #61

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    I am not sure why I will bother to post this as I know that it will never change but as someone that has gamed and used the forums of those games since 1998. I can honestly say that no forum has ever been better off adding post counts much less a reputation system.

    Post counts create the fire and the reputation system throws gasoline on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvessa View Post
    No, GWC makes no excuses for their actions. The typical GWC response is, "**** you." This is, of course, if one gets a response at all.
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  22. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatball View Post
    But when you post something idiotic, I don't care if you have 4 posts or 3,000, I will give you **** for it.
    You are talking about 99.9 percent of all my posts.
    Travian's very nature, from its design, will be hard on n00bs. We feed. I have been called soft on more than one occasion for letting a n00b neighbor live unmolested and haven't regretted it yet.
    The game is set up to be competitive on so many different levels just, again, in its design. This doesn't count the various ways we bring in our own competition. People go nuts getting on the top 10 attacker and robber lists.
    I do hope that someone comes up with something to keep the noobs around because I had a lot of fun with Travian back in the day.
    Quote Originally Posted by gebne View Post
    St. Chak, glorious atelier, faithful servant and bearer of thong,
    the stain of the troll has caused you to be forgotten by many,
    but the true forum invokes you universally as the patron of things despised of;
    pray for me, that finally I may receive the alterations and the couture of thongs in all my fripperies, ornamentations, and trimmings,
    particularly those of purple hue, and that I may read Chak with the thong throughout Eternity.

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