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Thread: Changes to Rank/permissions Structure

  1. #1

    Default Changes to Rank/permissions Structure

    Hey folks

    So one of the bigest challenges for me at the moment is the forum permissions and user rights.

    Someone in their infinite wisdomw created 13 different usergroup each with bespoke permissions which in itself is a security risk and difficult to manage.


    I would like to propose a new system of 3 user groups but keeping the current user ranks.

    User Groups:

    New Users (restricted group for brand new users, 100% post moderation, no sig, avatar, VM etc)
    This would be enforced untill the user has 5 posts that passes moderation.

    Registered Users: A group for most of the users standard access and settings

    Senior Users: A group for the Teals' + Senator + Consul. Extra rights such as larger mailbox etc


    The User Ranks (that are currently set as groups) would remain the same with the same banners and titles and time/post/rep requirements as currently set.

    Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on this before its implemented?

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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hudson View Post
    Hey folks

    So one of the bigest challenges for me at the moment is the forum permissions and user rights.

    Someone in their infinite wisdomw created 13 different usergroup each with bespoke permissions which in itself is a security risk and difficult to manage.
    Security risk? Could you explain how?


    Quote Originally Posted by m.hudson View Post
    I would like to propose a new system of 3 user groups but keeping the current user ranks.

    User Groups:

    New Users (restricted group for brand new users, 100% post moderation, no sig, avatar, VM etc)
    This would be enforced untill the user has 5 posts that passes moderation.
    I think this is an unnecessary barrier to new members. I haven't noticed an unusual amount of spam recently, so implementing post moderation for all new users seems to serve little purpose beyond hindering new members from getting involved. In an already dying forum, this doesn't seem like the best move in my opinion. Especially since recently many of our moderators have lacked the activity that we usually come to expect. What if a moderator is gone for 3-4 days and a new users post doesn't get approved until it's no longer relevant?

    Quote Originally Posted by m.hudson View Post
    Registered Users: A group for most of the users standard access and settings

    Senior Users: A group for the Teals' + Senator + Consul. Extra rights such as larger mailbox etc


    The User Ranks (that are currently set as groups) would remain the same with the same banners and titles and time/post/rep requirements as currently set.
    The rest of this seems fine to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by m.hudson View Post
    Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on this before its implemented?
    My last thing is that posting this in a new section in an already rarely frequented part of the forum does not seem like the best place to get much discussion going. I'd encourage you to find a way to publicize this a bit more before making changes so that more users can "have their say".

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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Old Mac View Post
    I think this is an unnecessary barrier to new members. I haven't noticed an unusual amount of spam recently, so implementing post moderation for all new users seems to serve little purpose beyond hindering new members from getting involved. In an already dying forum, this doesn't seem like the best move in my opinion. Especially since recently many of our moderators have lacked the activity that we usually come to expect. What if a moderator is gone for 3-4 days and a new users post doesn't get approved until it's no longer relevant?
    You do not see them because a similar system is already in place and the Mods take care of the bots before they even see the sunlight. This is an essential mechanism, it can be modified, but should not be removed completely in my opinion.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Old Mac View Post
    Security risk? Could you explain how?
    The more permission groups the harder it is to maintain the forum as each and every group has to be checked everytime a new forum area is made, an update is made infact any change is made from the back end. All it takes is one slip up and someone could get access to information they shouldent have or worst case to the backend system.



    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Old Mac View Post
    I think this is an unnecessary barrier to new members. I haven't noticed an unusual amount of spam recently, so implementing post moderation for all new users seems to serve little purpose beyond hindering new members from getting involved. In an already dying forum, this doesn't seem like the best move in my opinion. Especially since recently many of our moderators have lacked the activity that we usually come to expect. What if a moderator is gone for 3-4 days and a new users post doesn't get approved until it's no longer relevant?
    Its already inplace, if anything im making it easier for new members by reducing the post count requirement before moving them to regular member.
    Im contracted to be here for 2 hours a day so the possibility that a users post goes more than 24 hours before being approved is minimal (bar acts of god/illness/death in which case feanor or another cm would step in)

    Also the mods already do alot of hard work battleing the spambots, you just dont get to see them as the current system catchs most of them. The problem is alot are still dorment and without sorting the user accounts to catch all those with less than 5 posts some old ones could reactivate and post without hindrence due to the way the current system work.

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Old Mac View Post
    My last thing is that posting this in a new section in an already rarely frequented part of the forum does not seem like the best place to get much discussion going. I'd encourage you to find a way to publicize this a bit more before making changes so that more users can "have their say".
    There will be alot more going on in this area soon. Im waiting for HQ to catch up and give me the correct permissions. This area will be advertised in newsboxes and sidebars very soon but rather than wait i thought i would get started straight away just on the off chance that people like you stop by and comment

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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hudson View Post
    Senior Users: A group for the Teals' + Senator + Consul. Extra rights such as larger mailbox etc
    Considering that most of the people on the forums now are among this group, I couldn't be happier with this result.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Considering that most of the people on the forums now are among this group, I couldn't be happier with this result.
    I agree there are only about 200 users within that segment and they are basically the active ones. about 30k would benifit from increased mailbox, permissions etc as registered users and the 70k farm hands would see no difference other than its faster to move to a registered user.

  7. #7

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    Looking at the current system which is based on post and rep. The rep side is almost irrelevant now given how much is thrown around (with scores of 10000+ when the top level of rep bars is 500)

    I would propose that rep is only considered for the senior members who must have rep beyond repute everyone would be based on post count.

    New Users 0-5

    Registered Users
    Rank Post Rep
    Beggar 0
    farm hand 5
    tradesperson 50
    villager 250
    artisan 500
    merchant 1000
    philosopher 20000


    Senior Users
    senator 700 450
    consul 1400 450
    ambassador 2800 450
    architect 5600 450
    playwright 11200 450



    On average this would promote people up ranks and also add a handful of the top post/rep to senior ranks. There may be a few people who move down but these will be the minority since most who already have teal will exceed those scores anyway

    Those who regularly contribute would be rewarded.

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    I think that is a very steep post count requirement for the senior ranks. I've been here since '09, been staff, played countless servers, written guides that have been stickied here and even sent out in newsletters on foreign domains, and under that system I wouldn't be considered a Senior User because I haven't spammed out over 4k posts yet. That doesn't seem quite right to me.

    Also, the teal ranks have always been based on a nomination system. Ambassador for numerous and exemplary posts in the embassies, Architect for in the Help sections, and Playwright for the General Chat users. To make those ranks based almost entirely on post count, you may as well do away with the teal system entirely.
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  9. #9

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    I just plucked the numbers out of the air. We will set something more realistic but just wanted to see what people thought before coming up with something more concrete

    Given that quite a few of the teals are not active but there are many who are significantly more active (and have more rep) yet are not teals..

    I remember discussions a few years ago about how unfair it was, that user X only got teal because he was a friend/alliance member/ex crew member

    The idea is to move away from picking and choosing to have it automated, We cant be accused or bias, favouritism or anything else if its done by the system at set levels.

    There are some people at the higher post and rep levels that should be rewarded why not have an open and transparent automated promotion system to do the work for us.....



    Ultimately this is your forum not mine. That's why we are having discussions about changes rather than having them forced upon you. If the general consensus is not to change the ranks, then we wont change them. If people think the posts counts above are too many (or not enough perhaps) then that also could be changed (i have already halved them based on your comments)

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    That's fair. I don't recall what the exact requirement for those senior ranks are at the moment, but I'd take what you have above, lower the post counts, and make a an increasing scale for the rep. So, just spitballing, maybe something like:

    New Users 0-5

    Registered Users
    Rank Post Rep
    Beggar 0
    farm hand 5
    tradesperson 100
    villager 250
    artisan 500
    merchant 750
    philosopher 1000


    Senior Users
    senator 2000 1000
    consul 4000 2000
    ambassador Nomination
    architect Nomination
    playwright Nomination
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hudson View Post
    I just plucked the numbers out of the air. We will set something more realistic but just wanted to see what people thought before coming up with something more concrete

    Given that quite a few of the teals are not active but there are many who are significantly more active (and have more rep) yet are not teals..

    I remember discussions a few years ago about how unfair it was, that user X only got teal because he was a friend/alliance member/ex crew member

    The idea is to move away from picking and choosing to have it automated, We cant be accused or bias, favouritism or anything else if its done by the system at set levels.

    There are some people at the higher post and rep levels that should be rewarded why not have an open and transparent automated promotion system to do the work for us.....



    Ultimately this is your forum not mine. That's why we are having discussions about changes rather than having them forced upon you. If the general consensus is not to change the ranks, then we wont change them. If people think the posts counts above are too many (or not enough perhaps) then that also could be changed (i have already halved them based on your comments)
    A change in ranks is a great idea. Making it automated is an even better one. Many people earned their Teals well enough, but disappeared over time. I'm no Teal, but had months of inactivity (although my average is still somehow 2.54 posts per day - no clue now) and would and should not have had Teal. Is there a way to make the Teal ranks factored in with activity? Go, say, 6 months and you are 'dropped' down to Consul?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    That's fair. I don't recall what the exact requirement for those senior ranks are at the moment, but I'd take what you have above, lower the post counts, and make a an increasing scale for the rep. So, just spitballing, maybe something like:

    New Users 0-5

    Registered Users
    Rank Post Rep
    Beggar 0
    farm hand 5
    tradesperson 100
    villager 250
    artisan 500
    merchant 750
    philosopher 1000


    Senior Users
    senator 2000 1000
    consul 4000 2000
    ambassador Nomination
    architect Nomination
    playwright Nomination
    Nomination by whom? Hard to get anyone to vote on anything in these forums nowadays. The annual Travies has a pretty sad turn out, from what I've heard. And if it's nomination by staff, you get the same ol' 'friend of a friend' thang that happened years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by gebne View Post
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chak View Post
    A change in ranks is a great idea. Making it automated is an even better one. Many people earned their Teals well enough, but disappeared over time. I'm no Teal, but had months of inactivity (although my average is still somehow 2.54 posts per day - no clue now) and would and should not have had Teal. Is there a way to make the Teal ranks factored in with activity? Go, say, 6 months and you are 'dropped' down to Consul?

    Nomination by whom? Hard to get anyone to vote on anything in these forums nowadays. The annual Travies has a pretty sad turn out, from what I've heard. And if it's nomination by staff, you get the same ol' 'friend of a friend' thang that happened years ago.
    Firstly withouyt additional plugins the system is very basic. HQ dont allow plugins so no fancy calculations can be done using activity but its a nice idea.

    This is why i wanted to avoid nominations.

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    If no nominations, then I'd remove the teal system going forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    I think that is a very steep post count requirement for the senior ranks. I've been here since '09, been staff, played countless servers, written guides that have been stickied here and even sent out in newsletters on foreign domains, and under that system I wouldn't be considered a Senior User because I haven't spammed out over 4k posts yet. That doesn't seem quite right to me.

    Also, the teal ranks have always been based on a nomination system. Ambassador for numerous and exemplary posts in the embassies, Architect for in the Help sections, and Playwright for the General Chat users. To make those ranks based almost entirely on post count, you may as well do away with the teal system entirely.
    You would jump to Ambassador straight away

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    Despite the fact that it says m.hudson did not edit the post to which my quoted text replies, the numbers certainly did change since I made that comment. Yes, under the numbers up there, now I would jump to ambassador. Previously I would not have made the "Senior Ranks" group.
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    Despite the fact that it says m.hudson did not edit the post to which my quoted text replies, the numbers certainly did change since I made that comment. Yes, under the numbers up there, now I would jump to ambassador. Previously I would not have made the "Senior Ranks" group.
    It seems that there is no edited by: line. Kinda odd as it should be there. Thought I had said I had changed them in response to you . Seems I failed at that as well, My Bad!!!

    Soooooo before i have any more fails........ I reduced the post count to something more realistic as you suggested.
    I don't see the need to remove teals completely, they are useful to show the more active members etc

    And the teals will keep the forum areas they can currently see as well as the new user area. Teals would still be expected to help new forum users.

    [edit]

    Apparently my predecessors turned off the edited by for admins. It is back on now
    Last edited by CM M.Hudson; 09-04-2016 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Edit

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hudson View Post
    It seems that there is no edited by: line. Kinda odd as it should be there. Thought I had said I had changed them in response to you . Seems I failed at that as well, My Bad!!!

    Soooooo before i have any more fails........ I reduced the post count to something more realistic as you suggested.
    I don't see the need to remove teals completely, they are useful to show the more active members etc

    And the teals will keep the forum areas they can currently see as well as the new user area. Teals would still be expected to help new forum users.

    [edit]

    Apparently my predecessors turned off the edited by for admins. It is back on now
    Rule 1 of taking over a business: spin everything the predecessors did as bad and accuse them of failure. This way you can only go up from there.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5m4llP0X View Post
    Rule 1 of taking over a business: spin everything the predecessors did as bad and accuse them of failure. This way you can only go up from there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hudson View Post
    We all have our "Lifting a Dreamer" moments at some point. Accepting you are fallible is important.

    To err is human, to forgive divine.
    You're too nice. You should be more like 80s corporate guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    If no nominations, then I'd remove the teal system going forward.
    I wouldn't. Find a way to make it work and work right. If they cannot add a way to have those who have gone a certain amount of time inactive dropped from teal, I'd do it manually. Sounds like more work, but the teal system gives noobs something to shoot for and costs nothing but a bit of time from staff.
    Quote Originally Posted by gebne View Post
    St. Chak, glorious atelier, faithful servant and bearer of thong,
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    pray for me, that finally I may receive the alterations and the couture of thongs in all my fripperies, ornamentations, and trimmings,
    particularly those of purple hue, and that I may read Chak with the thong throughout Eternity.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chak View Post
    I wouldn't. Find a way to make it work and work right. If they cannot add a way to have those who have gone a certain amount of time inactive dropped from teal, I'd do it manually. Sounds like more work, but the teal system gives noobs something to shoot for and costs nothing but a bit of time from staff.
    I agree with Dan here. I've never been *that* into the forums, but I do believe that the Teal system is a great way to reward people for contributing positively to the community and should remain on the forums.

    That being said, I still think that Teals should be done by nomination, as they are (or were) in place to show that someone has contributed in positive ways on the forums. Specifically, each rank signifies the following:

    Architect: Awarded to users who have consistently and positively contributed to the Browsergame or Travian Development areas of the forums.

    Ambassador: Awarded to users who have consistently and positively contributed to one of the Embassies.

    Playwright: Awarded to users who have consistently and positively contributed to Talk and Play.
    Granted the above is a bit outdated, and some sections/areas are renamed, but the general idea is still there. Gaining the Teal ranks by post count would negate the reasons why people have received these ranks in the past, and give little to no real value to the ranks going forward.

    I think to solve this, nominations are still the way to go, but they should be open to more than just staff. Using the ranking system provided by Old Mac (which, on another note, I find his post counts for each rank to be realistic and a great starting point):

    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    New Users 0-5

    Registered Users
    Rank Post Rep
    Beggar 0
    farm hand 5
    tradesperson 100
    villager 250
    artisan 500
    merchant 750
    philosopher 1000


    Senior Users
    senator 2000 1000
    consul 4000 2000
    ambassador Nomination
    architect Nomination
    playwright Nomination
    To start, for simplicity's sake, I believe we should cut down to one Teal rank, which all 3 current rankings would merge in to.

    As for getting (or losing) a Teal: I believe everyone who is a Senior User (including new and old Teals), Philosophers, and Staff members should be able to nominate for Teals in an area on the forums open only to these groups. New Teals can be nominated every 3 or 6 months, if not longer, making it a semi-annual event. Those people nominating must provide reasons why they are nominating a certain player, including links to posts, etc. If others agree with a nomination, they can approve and provide information on why they think the person is a great nomination as well. Once nominations are placed high ranking forum staff (CM, FA, SMod, etc.) will review the nominations for reasons that would make them ineligible for the ranks (bans, other infractions, etc.) and ultimately agree on those who will indeed get the ranks. Additionally, when new Teal nominations are being reviewed, old Teals can also be reviewed for inactivity, infractions, etc. that may lead to them losing their Teal ranking.

    I know the nominations still leave room for bias to occur, but opening it to more than just staff and having it be a semi-public nomination leaves it more transparent and open for community involvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chak View Post
    Hard to get anyone to vote on anything in these forums nowadays.
    I agree this will play a roll in whether my proposal would be worthwhile or not, as it will be useless if no one nominates. The forums have been quiet compared to years past, but I think the changes Matt (mhudson) is proposing could help spark some renewed interest here. I may just be the blind optimist, but resigning to the contrary will not get us anywhere.

  22. #22

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    Thank you grasshopper, some interesting comments there. Reducing the Teal ranks to just one would make it more manageable to individually manager using a public vote so that could be an option.

    In a few more days I will collate all the sugestions here and post a poll with the options. The one that wins will be implemented.

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    Grasshopper and I seem to be in agreement. If teal ranks are based solely on post count and not quality of contribution then it really does go against the original idea of them. I can get behind merging it into one real rank as well.
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    I will add here that last year, forum posters were told they could nominate themselves. One poster that has an old join date, but rarely posted submitted his name and was granted the teal. To test this, I submitted my name and was told it would be voted on. I recanted my own submission saying it wasn't right to be able to nominate yourself, and because I knew I wasn't going to be on the forums for months or longer due to a family sickness.

    I don't think actual post count should come into major play here, but rather if that member has contributed, and if they are fairly regular. We all have RL issues, but to be gone, come back, get a teal, then disappear again for months takes meaning away from the teal.

    How do members go about nominating another member for teal? There are a couple who I think deserve it much more than some other players that currently have it, and I'd like to nominate them.

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    The danger of having teals nominating other teal candidates, is that it will be an elitist club.
    Much like the Fellowship of Cambridge University in the '20s would be:
    Only a Fellow could nominate a non-Fellow, and the other Fellows would decide on it.
    You'll have to get personal favors to vote for you, otherwise you won't get in.

    So I am against ranks that require only nominations, and specifically nominations from current members of that rank.

    I think a rep combo with post counts is the best way, if you select the regular members just by post count.
    Last edited by Dark Tower; 09-06-2016 at 11:50 PM.

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    No one said anything about only teals being able to nominate teals. The fact of the matter is, the teal was incorporated in order to signify users who greatly contributed to the forum. Take Tineren for example. For YEARS now he has answered almost every question asked in the Questions section, and I've only seen him stumped maybe one time (if ever). He's earned his teal. Not from the sheer number of his posts, but from the immense contribution he has given to this community. To assign others that same honor (as the teal rank is meant to be a sign of honor and recognition) would be disrespectful to those users who have truly earned their teal. This is why I say that if teals are to be assigned by post count and rep alone, then just do away with teal altogether.
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  27. #27

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    OK some interesting thoughts there. Perhaps there could be a different way. Remove teals, keep senior 2 ranks but as post/rep and have a new reward system with a banner.

    This would solve the issue of teals being inactive for years but still having the rank, and a new banner to reward those in the future from their contribution with a quarterly proposal from players, a vote and then an award.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    I agree with Dan here. I've never been *that* into the forums, but I do believe that the Teal system is a great way to reward people for contributing positively to the community and should remain on the forums.

    That being said, I still think that Teals should be done by nomination, as they are (or were) in place to show that someone has contributed in positive ways on the forums.

    To start, for simplicity's sake, I believe we should cut down to one Teal rank, which all 3 current rankings would merge in to.

    As for getting (or losing) a Teal: I believe everyone who is a Senior User (including new and old Teals), Philosophers, and Staff members should be able to nominate for Teals in an area on the forums open only to these groups. New Teals can be nominated every 3 or 6 months, if not longer, making it a semi-annual event. Those people nominating must provide reasons why they are nominating a certain player, including links to posts, etc. If others agree with a nomination, they can approve and provide information on why they think the person is a great nomination as well. Once nominations are placed high ranking forum staff (CM, FA, SMod, etc.) will review the nominations for reasons that would make them ineligible for the ranks (bans, other infractions, etc.) and ultimately agree on those who will indeed get the ranks. Additionally, when new Teal nominations are being reviewed, old Teals can also be reviewed for inactivity, infractions, etc. that may lead to them losing their Teal ranking.

    I know the nominations still leave room for bias to occur, but opening it to more than just staff and having it be a semi-public nomination leaves it more transparent and open for community involvement.
    I'm curious about your thoughts on the above, Matt. It seems like a logical system, and with a quarterly or biannual review and nomination period, making sure all with the Teal rank still deserve it should be rather easy. There are (or should be) only a handful Teals at any given time, any way.
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  29. #29

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    we all know what curiosity did to the cat..... and my thoughts really matter very little, im just facilitating a discussion and throwing ideas out there, you folks are comming up with answers and will shortly make the decision on the subject.

    If the generally consensus go with grasshopper's sugestion then that is what I will work to implement and facilitate the selection process for new teals.

    My thought is that one rank is more manageable long term than three.......

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisalpine View Post
    How do members go about nominating another member for teal? There are a couple who I think deserve it much more than some other players that currently have it, and I'd like to nominate them.
    I think the answer to that comes down to what is being discussed in this thread in the first place.

    Reflecting on what others have said, and expanding on my previous post, I see nominations happening one of two ways:

    1. Nominations can be made in private (such as a forum PM to someone who manages the nominations, a google docs survey form, etc.). Once nominations are received over X days, after which a list of nominations will presented to groups of Senior Users, Philosophers, and Staff as I mentioned before. People can provide feedback on those nominated and agree on those who deserve a Teal.

    2. Similar to number one, but all nominations are cast in a forum open to the Senior Users, Philosophers, and Staff only. All community members with access to this area would see who is being nominated and by whom. The nominations then can be discussed publicly and feedback can be provided on each nomination.

    In both cases, the following would also apply:

    1. No person can nominate themselves, nor can they provide info on why they themselves think they would be worthy of a Teal.

    2. When nominating a person evidence, such as forum posts, must be linked to in order to show others why a person is being nominated. Just being a friend of someone, or someone who posts a few good things periodically is not enough. It must be shown that the person contributes positively on a regular basis, and examples of their posts must be provided.

    3. A number of members must agree that a person should receive a Teal. A single nomination and vote of support is not enough.

    In reflection to the above, the nominations can be open to other ranks than the Senior Users and Philosophers as well. I chose to include the Philosophers group in addition to Senior Users as these members have contributed to the forums extensively, but maybe not as much as the Senior Users OR, they have not met the reputation requirements for a Senior rank. Point is, I think those who can nominate for Teals should be those that have a larger stake in the forums, or are at least more experienced on the forums than most users.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    The danger of having teals nominating other teal candidates, is that it will be an elitist club.
    As I presented it, more than just Teals would be nominating new Teals. Other Senior Users, the Philosophers, and Staff members would also be nominating. Additionally, just because a person is nominated for a Teal does not mean they will receive one. There must be evidence to show why a person deserves a Teal, and multiple people must agree that a person is indeed deserving of a Teal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    So I am against ranks that require only nominations, and specifically nominations from current members of that rank.

    I think a rep combo with post counts is the best way, if you select the regular members just by post count.
    I understand your point of nomination-required ranks. However, this is in regards to Teals which, as I presented in my earlier post, have a meaning to the rank outside of posts count and reputation points. Again, basing a Teal off of these factors would negate why Teals were made and granted in the first place. If it is ultimately decided that nominations will not be feasible or accepted by the community, then those who currently have a Teal should keep their rank as they earned it, but no other player will receive a Teal going forward, essentially removing the rank.

  31. #31
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    My preference would be:

    -Teals by nomination (as described by Grasshopper above)
    -Nominations and Teal review every 6 or 12 months
    -Merging all three current teal ranks into one is fine by me
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hudson View Post
    OK some interesting thoughts there. Perhaps there could be a different way. Remove teals, keep senior 2 ranks but as post/rep and have a new reward system with a banner.

    This would solve the issue of teals being inactive for years but still having the rank, and a new banner to reward those in the future from their contribution with a quarterly proposal from players, a vote and then an award.
    I did not see this proposal until after I made my last post (thank you fire drill at 8:30pm in my residence hall).

    What specifically would the banner be? I'm just curious what your thoughts are with it. Is it a new rank of sorts, something that's displayed on their profile/signature? Also, if a banner is something already known amongst forum peeps, then forgive me, I've never paid that much attention to know what it signifies

    edit: If this is related to only one "award" rank, then I do agree with that. I think one Teal rank, award rank, whatever is enough. Having multiple similar ones that really only differ in name is silly going forward.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 09-07-2016 at 01:20 AM. Reason: adding more stuffs

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    The danger of having teals nominating other teal candidates, is that it will be an elitist club.
    It's sad that this is a very real danger. I agree - no specific individual class should have that power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod Dark Tower View Post
    I think a rep combo with post counts is the best way, if you select the regular members just by post count.
    Completely disagree. There are some awesome people who post sporadically, yet regularly, who have been around for a decade and haven't climbed to 2000 posts yet who definitely would deserve it.
    Rep is a biggy. The fact that a person has diarrhea of the typewriter should not be a factor.
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  34. #34
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    I have seen the current teals work (some even helped me when I was new) and I think that users like that certainly deserve their special ranks.

    The rep+post count system is certainly not the way I would like this to go. Nominations by normal users and Staff means the deserving get awarded for their active participation even if they don't post every single day to just increase their post count.
    The Staff can easily monitor the system that Grasshopper proposed. Evidence should be mandatory to support nominations for any user. That way others can also see why the user deserves the teal and the Staff can verify it before the final selections.

  35. #35
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    I think this is headed in the right direction now.
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  36. #36

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    /me pops out head

    I think it's worthwhile to look into the history of the ranks and why they are here.
    It initially started as post count only; as you can imagine, the spammers very quickly rose in rank while providing nothing of substance. In this time, there was no benefit to the rank held and held very little significance.
    Fighter introduced the rank system, as it is currently, in order to try foster more quality posts through the outside influence of reputation. It worked initially. Due to the inherent design, rep is always going to cater towards cliques. You can see that with all the posts from the 'old guard' as it were. As reputation inflated, it began holding less and less significance and was easier to attain (both negatively and positively) leading to massive swings.
    That itself was changed such that the formula more heavily relied on the time on the forum followed by the post count and finally held reputation. As the people with the higher reputation posted more and more and were due to forever be longer on the forum, the rep further inflated.
    The best fix in my mind would be to tie the rep given to the rank held. I.e. farmhands give none, consuls give 20 (random figures pulled from my backside) although I recognise that isn't possible within the system.

    If ranks were kept, something like this would be best in my opinion:
    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    So, just spitballing, maybe something like:

    New Users 0-5

    Registered Users
    Rank Post Rep
    Beggar 0
    farm hand 5
    tradesperson 100
    villager 250
    artisan 500
    merchant 750
    philosopher 1000


    Senior Users
    senator 2000 1000
    consul 4000 2000
    ambassador Nomination
    architect Nomination
    playwright Nomination
    If teal ranks are kept, moving them into the one is a good idea and should happen. I wouldn't be offended if they were done away with either. The recognition is nice but is ultimately unneeded.


    In closing, the purpose for which the rank structure was originally created has moved on. The largest underlying issue is the dwindling player base which is why there are significantly more senior users compared to non-senior. It matters not in my mind where people sit on a sliding scale. With the currently active posters, you already know who is of worth simply by reading a few posts.


    EDIT:
    In regard to Teals nominating teals, there are perhaps 3 of us that post semi-regularly or at least read what is going on. You'll run into the issue of having no teals to nominate people before you run into the clique group issues. The nominations, if that way is gone, will need to be opened to a larger audience regardless if it lives on let alone for transparency issues.
    Last edited by Scarecrow; 09-08-2016 at 07:13 AM.

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  37. #37
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    I very much like the phrase "positive contributions". You can have a very consistent poster, but those posts are geared to stirring things up, or negative posts most of the time, should NOT in my humble opinion be rewarded just for keeping the forums active. I also feel years of contributions would be needed. If participation picks up, hopefully the Travies would covet, boost and encourage newer posters, as well as hopefully adding encouragement to stay around more than a few years or so.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    I think this is an unnecessary barrier to new members. I haven't noticed an unusual amount of spam recently, so implementing post moderation for all new users seems to serve little purpose beyond hindering new members from getting involved. In an already dying forum, this doesn't seem like the best move in my opinion. Especially since recently many of our moderators have lacked the activity that we usually come to expect. What if a moderator is gone for 3-4 days and a new users post doesn't get approved until it's no longer relevant?
    That isn't new. They've been doing that for a couple years now. Your post remains hidden until a mod approves it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    I think that is a very steep post count requirement for the senior ranks. I've been here since '09, been staff, played countless servers, written guides that have been stickied here and even sent out in newsletters on foreign domains, and under that system I wouldn't be considered a Senior User because I haven't spammed out over 4k posts yet. That doesn't seem quite right to me.

    Also, the teal ranks have always been based on a nomination system. Ambassador for numerous and exemplary posts in the embassies, Architect for in the Help sections, and Playwright for the General Chat users. To make those ranks based almost entirely on post count, you may as well do away with the teal system entirely.
    Oh shush.

    Though the rep requirements should be higher. And who has 10,000+? I only have 6,000.

    Who would have access to the DLZ forum?
    Last edited by SMOD polkadot; 09-13-2016 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Triple Post
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  39. #39

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    Personally, I think the rep power should be neutered (+/- 1, regardless of who the heck you are? +/-1 for "registered", +/- 2 for "senior"?), the "registered users" and "senior users" group should both be allowed to rep, and the rep requirements, if any, should be set very low. Possibly also slash all current rep values heavily towards zero (and cap current at 500), if it's possible to do it in an automated fashion (if it's a hassle, then it's not really worthwhile), or maybe even a rep reset (especially if rep requirements for most stuff get made low / nonexistent).

    Senior user should, IMO, mostly be just to signify that you've been here a while (which would be the standard interpretation, and the way it's used on most forums) and posted a bit, not necessarily that you're any sort of "upstanding" user. Maybe something like two years and 1500 posts (~2/day over two years)? Heck, probably more like a year & 750-ish posts, or possibly reduced post counts.

    As for teals titles, I honestly don't see the point in them, but if you do keep them, maybe have them be high post count and rep, to signify the more well-liked active members? Is it possible to have posts-per-day over the last x days as a factor?

    I do think it would be kind of interesting to allow custom titles for senior users; that's an option on vBulletin, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Though the rep requirements should be higher. And who has 10,000+? I only have 6,000.
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  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    And who has 10,000+? I only have 6,000.
    (5782 point(s) total)
    s1 : Storeythor http://travian-reports.net/us/report/2674061c50d
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
    Gotta be talented to look after 2 WW's simultaneously. Or crazy... Crazy seems more like it.
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    The more I read of OdinLoki's posts, the more I want to play alongside him. Not for the results, as frequently good as they are, but for the sheer fun he seems to have at it. Would + rep if I could, man. Always enjoy reading your stuff... and mostly cringe at the results contained in 'em.
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