View Poll Results: Would you let your son wear a dress?

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43. You may not vote on this poll
  • Sure, why not?

    20 46.51%
  • Ok, but just to a certain age...

    1 2.33%
  • Yes, but only in private.

    6 13.95%
  • Yes, but only for special occasions where it can be excused.

    0 0%
  • Maybe just once.

    4 9.30%
  • Hell no.

    12 27.91%
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Thread: Would you let your son wear a dress?

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cat Goddess View Post
    Examples:
    Kilts... especially w/ sporrans. (That one's for you.)
    Overalls. Some girls wear 'em, I think they look ugly on girls (and are deliberately provocative).
    "Muscle shirts".
    Clothing tailored for boys/men. (Buttons on the right.)
    Why can't a woman show off her heritage?
    So provocative is bad?
    What if she's got muscles?
    What if she likes the cut better or is a bit flat and finds the clothing more comfortable?


  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    I believe most European countries now have some form of same sex marriage thing, but yes it does still cause some bullying. It is not completely tolerated everywhere yet. Not heard of anyone getting killed for it though. Not in the last decade or 3 anyway.
    Just Belgium, Iceland, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden. Though other parts of the E.U. has civil union type scenarios.

    As for the rest of the world Argentina, Canada, South Africa. Like much of Europe, most of South America has civil unions.

    Some states in the U.S. allow same-sex marriage. I know some gay and lesbian couples who were and remain legally married in California, but I'm not sure how the law is now as it's been changing for the past few years now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    I listened to a program on the radio around 3 years ago about how bad it is to be homosexual in Norway. They might get called **** (well the Norwegian slur anyway) and get their hair pulled (I have no idea why this is something that happens), but otherwise they are safe enough.

    Most other Europeans countries are about the same as that. At least in the west. Well, except the UK. But then, the British are always a bit weird as compared with the rest of Europe.
    Every urban area has gay enclave I guess. I have a gay cousin who lives mainly in Valencia and Berlin, I stayed at his place for about a week. He definitely has found a nice milieu of friends, especially in the cities that he lives in, himself an artist both of those cities are known for their openness and art scenes. But, it's not always ideal as he told me that he sometimes receives slurs and unfair treatment.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    When I think "manly gay" I think of "bears":

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_(gay_culture)
    Bears are the epitome of masculinity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Me too, though buffs and tones are usually pretty masculine. But with "camp gays" i usually think femmes or twinks, not the radical of what SS showed.
    It gets even further confusing, as there are plenty of bi and hetero femmes as well. When it comes to identity it is what it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Cat Goddess View Post
    While it may come as a surprise to some, I believe in generally keeping one's personal life exactly that... personal.

    Choosing to be who you are does not have to mean you need to flaunt it in front of others. If people ask, you should be honest... or you should tell them that it's none of their business.

    If a boy I was raising wanted to wear a dress, I would discuss the matter with him. Explain that, in public, most people dress in certain ways and in a polite society a person acts polite in public and as they wish in private (among friends).

    I would feel the same about it if a girl I was raising wanted to wear clothing traditionally only worn by boys.
    I agree that yes there is a formal way to act in class, at work, and in public. Example, I don't go hugging and kisses everyone, as many people would feel either uncomfortable, offended, or otherwise resent me in the negative. So I reserve hugging and kissing for pretty much close friends and family, I would hug a close friend in public however and maybe a kiss him on the forehead as I generally wouldn't care. I wouldn't however, ever do that at a business conference with a colleague.

    The dress issue, I really don't see this issue coming up except for a really rare scenario as most boys regardless of their gender preference, orientation etc. simply wouldn't want to wear a dress.

    The dress is a icon of femininity in this case, the more appropriate question would be "would you let the boy you are raising enjoy hobbies or interests that are traditionally more 'feminine'?"
    Last edited by Summer; 05-31-2011 at 06:38 PM.

  3. #83
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    What is interesting to me is that women can wear what is traditionally considered "men's" clothing and retain much of their femininity and perceived sexual orientation. I don't think the same can be said for men anywhere near as much.

    Put a woman in a man's suit, al la "9 1/2 Weeks" or "Cabaret" and that's generally considered pretty sexy and the woman isn't necessarily thought of as being gay. Put a woman in a tank-top and most people think that's pretty sexy and the woman isn't necessarily thought of as being gay.

    Put a man in in a dress and he's a freak and generally assumed to be gay. Put a man in certain colors (regardless of the gender of the clothes) and he is generally assumed to be gay.

  4. #84

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    What I find interesting Summer is a female is saying a plaid skirt is "Good" for a man but a pink one isn't.

    I know the kilt has a different meaning but in the end, that's all it amounts to. A pink frilly skirt isn't what a man should wear, a man should wear a plaid skirt.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by aquias View Post
    What I find interesting Summer is a female is saying a plaid skirt is "Good" for a man but a pink one isn't.

    I know the kilt has a different meaning but in the end, that's all it amounts to. A pink frilly skirt isn't what a man should wear, a man should wear a plaid skirt.
    A plaid kilt that shows off my hairy legs that are only accentuated by how pale my legs are. \o/
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  6. #86
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    Oh...and why are buttons and zippers positioned differently on men's clothing vs. women's?

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    Oh...and why are buttons and zippers positioned differently on men's clothing vs. women's?
    Apparently they signify who should wear them? I dunno, never heard that before. However, I may have been cross dressing for years without realizing it!

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by aquias View Post
    Apparently they signify who should wear them? I dunno, never heard that before. However, I may have been cross dressing for years without realizing it!
    The buttons on men's shirts are always on the right side.

    Open Question: Do women's pants feature the buttons on the left side like blouses?
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  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    The buttons on men's shirts are always on the right side.

    Open Question: Do women's pants feature the buttons on the left side like blouses?
    Erm... every dress shirt type I have with buttons has them down the middle...

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by aquias View Post
    Erm... every dress shirt type I have with buttons has them down the middle...
    Buttons on the right means the left side of the shirt will be over the right side of the shirt. In other words, the buttons come from the right.
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  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by aquias View Post
    What I find interesting Summer is a female is saying a plaid skirt is "Good" for a man but a pink one isn't.

    I know the kilt has a different meaning but in the end, that's all it amounts to. A pink frilly skirt isn't what a man should wear, a man should wear a plaid skirt.
    Simply, kilts are traditionally more masculine. That's probably changed now though as the all-male kilt clubs of pipers, now include women kilt wearing pipers these days.

    Although sometimes the wearing of dresses is for guys traditionally perfectly normal.



    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    Oh...and why are buttons and zippers positioned differently on men's clothing vs. women's?
    Always tailored that way, rumor has it that it dates back to servants dressing men. Women's clothes were traditionally only tightened from the back.

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Always tailored that way, rumor has it that it dates back to servants dressing men. Women's clothes were traditionally only tightened from the back.
    I've heard too reasons. Buttons from the left is easier for someone else to button up. The other reason is that women rode horses side saddle facing left. So buttons from the right would let air possibly knock open the shirt, thus they were buttoned from the left. Practical reasons, really.
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquias View Post
    Apparently they signify who should wear them? I dunno, never heard that before. However, I may have been cross dressing for years without realizing it!
    Me too.

    I still feel masculine...go figure.

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    Me too.
    Look at your clothes. I'm pretty shirt all your shirts button from the right.
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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    Look at your clothes. I'm pretty shirt all your shirts button from the right.
    Most of mine do. I have a favorite polo that buttons opposite of all my others. I also have a jacket with a zipper on the opposite side (not sure if that means it was meant to be a woman's jacket or if it was just an odd design).

    I can understand different cuts based on the fact that most women have different body shapes than men, but I still don't really understand the button/zipper thing (though I find the historical reasonings provided here quite rational).

  16. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    I still don't really understand the button/zipper thing (though I find the historical reasonings provided here quite rational).
    That's it. There is no reason that I know of besides historical reasons. Since it's so trivial anyway there really isn't any reason to change and mess with older people that are used to the status quo.
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  17. #97
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    On a woman tailored button down shirt, the buttons are on the left side, with the button holes on the right. Man tailored shirts are the opposite. Same applies to dress slacks. Not sure about jeans.

    Aquias brings up a really solid point, one that needs to be addressed more than the "Boys shouldn't wear dresses". It is okay for girls to wear cammo, cowboy boots, tuxedos, jeans, slacks, etc. But a boy can't wear a dress, heels or lipstick. I think before we can answer the question of "My son would never wear a dress." argument, we should examine the hypocracy of what is acceptable for each gender to wear.
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  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfkin View Post
    On a woman tailored button down shirt, the buttons are on the left side, with the button holes on the right. Man tailored shirts are the opposite. Same applies to dress slacks. Not sure about jeans.

    Aquias brings up a really solid point, one that needs to be addressed more than the "Boys shouldn't wear dresses". It is okay for girls to wear cammo, cowboy boots, tuxedos, jeans, slacks, etc. But a boy can't wear a dress, heels or lipstick. I think before we can answer the question of "My son would never wear a dress." argument, we should examine the hypocracy of what is acceptable for each gender to wear.
    Some guys have grown accustomed to carrying "man bags". I have about three, the purse can be quite handy at times. It also takes maximum self confidence to shamelessly rock a fanny pack.


  19. #99
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    Hmm... If I'm ever a parent, my first reaction would probably have been to go with the norm and say no.

    However, if I have a son who wants to wear a dress I'd probably explain to him how people may react. I'm assuming he'd be at least 7 or 8, and would have a better understanding of how people would react. Anything younger than that I'd also attempt to explain things to him, but may be more weary about letting him go through with it. No matter what the age though, I'd definitely ask him why he wants to wear a dress, and take it as a hint to how his interests may develop. That way I can better support him and have a better idea of what to expect from him rather than appear ignorant to who he is and immediately dismiss it as a quick phase.

    This discussion is similar to the problem I have with my school dress code, which regulates hair for boys, but not for girls. Administrators will also tell some guys who spike their hair to stop doing that as "it looks too dangerous". They also do not let men have any piercings visible or wear any jewelry. I find that slightly over the top and sexist, I generally wear my hair a bit longer than the rules allow (which are no more than half past the ear, not touching the shirt collar in the back, and not past your eyebrows in the front). And when my hair is longer than the rules, people will make comments because most of them have grown up in this school where boys had to have shorter hair. Yet you go to schools without dress codes and my hair would be considered rather short.

    There was something else I was going to say, but lost it in mid sentence.
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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Some guys have grown accustomed to carrying "man bags". I have about three, the purse can be quite handy at times. It also takes maximum self confidence to shamelessly rock a fanny pack.

    I have to object...a fanny pack is unisex and anyone caught with one should rightfully and justifiably be open game to society's ridicule.

  21. #101

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    I see so few women in dresses that it surprises me when I do see one. As long as I feel the son is old and mature enough to make his own decisions then I would let him. Being younger I would say no to protect him from criticism by his peers.
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  22. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    I have to object...a fanny pack is unisex and anyone caught with one should rightfully and justifiably be open game to society's ridicule.
    Whatever,

    Sporting a fanny pack and making it look good is the ultimate test of self-confidence.

  23. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Some guys have grown accustomed to carrying "man bags". I have about three, the purse can be quite handy at times. It also takes maximum self confidence to shamelessly rock a fanny pack.

    I laugh at your inefficiency.
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  24. #104
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    As the great Alan Garner once said "...it's not a purse, it's called a satchel. Indiana Jones wears one."

  25. #105

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    Nobody looks good in a fanny pack.
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  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquias View Post
    Why can't a woman show off her heritage?
    So provocative is bad?
    What if she's got muscles?
    What if she likes the cut better or is a bit flat and finds the clothing more comfortable?

    1) Women never wore kilts. If a woman wants to wear a tartan, there are clothing designs for that.
    2 & 3) Neither overalls nor "muscle shirts" adequately cover a woman's chest. I'm also not fond of string bikinis, mind you.
    4) You can find button-down shirts for "flat" women... and men's pants just aren't designed for a woman's leg/hip shape. Unless she's deliberately trying to look "man-ish"... which I don't agree with for children.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    Oh...and why are buttons and zippers positioned differently on men's clothing vs. women's?
    Some thoughts, here.

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    The buttons on men's shirts are always on the right side.

    Open Question: Do women's pants feature the buttons on the left side like blouses?
    Yes.
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  27. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    So, this is reminiscent of another thread months back about a similar topic where a little boy's parents allowed him wear a dress (I think the mother even authored a children's book about it). I still see the same societal double standard here. It has to do with gender roles and and an insistance that boys/men behave in a stereotypically "manly" way.

    All I have are girls. My youngest (8 years old) refuses to wear dresses or even girly designs. Except for her mother's pestering, she receives abosolutely no backlash for this choice. Why is this so much more acceptable in society than for a boy to wear a dress?

    If I had a boy in this situation, my only concern would be how he would be treated by adults and other children who have been taught narrow-mindedness and intolerance from the adults in their lives.
    ^ this

    Quote Originally Posted by aquias View Post
    O.o

    Best troll ever.

    Feminism at it's core is about equality. Which would mean that men should be able to dress in a dress if they want, without reprisal. I mean, if this were the case...

    The reason why a man in a dress is so foreign? Society rules. Men are supposed to be manly. Those who are not, tend to be the focus of those that believe they are. I'd actually love to see a study that shows lesbians are more accepted than gay men... In talking with both neither side seems to feel more accepted than the other.
    And this ^

    Honestly, I don't see a problem with guys not acting in the stereotypically "manly" way. It's actually really hot...I never liked jocks and find people whose lives revolve around sports/guns/cars/all those stereotypically "manly" interests a huge turn off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapient View Post
    Probably the same reason lesbians are more accepted than gay men. Women are more secure in their sexuality than men.

    Also, feminism has prevailed for a few decades now, which strengthens women's choices about how they dress.
    Um no. If I make out with a hot, "feminine-looking" woman, I usually get cheers. If I make out with a non-stereotypically feminine woman, I pretty much get the same reaction my gay friends get. Lesbianism is only encouraged when it serves to encourage male fantasies of a potential threesome...when it looks like the girls are doing it for male viewing pleasure.

    As a gay man, I think you'd rarely find girls hitting on you more aggressively once they see you making out with a man. Maybe you'd get annoying "omg!!1! wanna be liek, my shopping buddy???" proposals. If you were woman making out with another woman, you'd find that sometimes, guys hit on you even more aggressively.

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    Then again, I also find women who like to wear heels to be insane.
    ^ this.

    After an hour in heels, my smile pretty much turns into snarl and I start getting very, very sarcastic. I think my parents gave up pushing marriage after seeing my behaviour in social functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquias View Post
    What I find interesting Summer is a female is saying a plaid skirt is "Good" for a man but a pink one isn't.

    I know the kilt has a different meaning but in the end, that's all it amounts to. A pink frilly skirt isn't what a man should wear, a man should wear a plaid skirt.
    Totally random but pink used to be a masculine colour. It's seen as the lighter form of red, which was seen as an aggressive, hence masculine, colour. Meanwhile, light blue was seen as a feminine colour due to the Virgin Mary often being portrayed in blue (that's another art history lecture).

    This is why most of the earlier Disney girls would be portrayed in blue. If you look at Disney's Peter Pan cartoon that came out in 1953, you'd notice that the baby boy is in pink while Wendy is in light blue.

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  28. #108

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    I see a lot of talk in this thread about sexuality and how a parents reaction affects it and such, and being a homosexual who had to deal with figuring out what my sexuality was I feel the need to comment.

    Let me start by saying that when I was very young, perhaps about 7/8 or so, I wanted to do ballet. My mother decided this was too girly so instead I did karate. Did I still have fun with it? Yes. I don't remember being all that upset about being told it was girly and I couldn't do it. At that age I remember saying I liked girls and such, and in sixth grade I distinctly remember having crushes on girls. In middle school I even had a couple of girlfriends who I even made out with!

    I honestly didn't even consider that I was gay at that point. I only started to consider that I might be gay when I was in high school, around 15/16. That being said though, I distinctly remember watching gay porn when I was about 12/13 or so, but didn't really think about what I was doing. For some reason a naked woman just grossed me out, but yet I still thought of myself somewhat straight (or at least not gay). When I was 14 I moved out to Kansas, and my then girlfriend and I decided to try the long distance thing (stupid for middle schoolers, I know, but what the hey). It was at that point that I was able to explore my sexuality some more and figure out who I was. I came to the conclusion I was gay when I was 16. I came out to my parents shortly after, went to therapy, ended up not even talking about being gay, and my parents accepted the fact shortly after.

    My point here is that sexuality isn't really something that comes about at that age. It is rather the parent being a good parent and trying to protect their kid from ridicule, something that I think any parent would want to do to the best of their ability. It is important to let one's child explore sexuality and be themselves, but to say a parent is preventing their kid from being his/herself simply because they won't let him/her wear a dress is ludicrous. Sexuality isn't something that starts to manifest until you hit puberty, and I don't think that saying no to wearing woman's clothes is something a child will distinctly remember later on in life. Heck, the only reason I know that I remember I wanted to do ballet as a kid was because my parents decided to bring up during one of those "embarrass the kids as much as possible" conversations.

    All this being said though, I do remember seeing something on Oprah or some news special of sorts way back when about transgendered children who felt completely like something was wrong with their body, I remember one instance of a little boy trying to cut off his own ***** because he felt it shouldn't be there. That was truly heartbreaking and I feel is an instance where the parents should help their kids and let them wear what they want to be his/herself so they feel comfortable. However, cases such as that are few and far between, and in general when a kid is saying he wants to wear a dress he is generally just exploring and being a little kid, nothing more, so a parent saying no isn't detrimental.
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  29. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by StealthSigma View Post
    I laugh at your inefficiency.
    Yeah, you know.

    It's kinda an inside joke. My friend took a bus to Coachella with her university and the AS gave everyone fanny packs. Which led to many students rocking them and taking photos. I'll post one of hers (though I feel terrible for doing it) so *ixnay on the picsay*, she's mastered the art of rocking the fanny pack.



    I would post a pic of me in a fanny pack, but I haven't had the honor of owning one and having a pic taken.

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cat Goddess View Post
    Okay...I'm gonna have to call BS on this link.

    A Yahoo! Search on "button history" also led us to Benjamin "Good Advice Is Timeless!" Dover of the Dallas Morning News.
    Benjamin Dover...really???


  31. #111
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    I hear he's good friends with Mike Hawk.
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  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    I hear he's good friends with Mike Hawk.
    That may well be, but he apparently doesn't like Mike Hunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdurand View Post
    That may well be, but he apparently doesn't like Mike Hunt.
    Is he cousins with Richard Bagg?
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  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    Is he cousins with Richard Bagg?
    Not sure about that but I do know he once gave Harold Balls a hand.

  35. #115

    Woden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old MacDonald View Post
    Is he cousins with Richard Bagg?
    I thought it was Richard Hed he was related to?

  36. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woden View Post
    I thought it was Richard Hed he was related to?
    It was the Mehoff brothers.

  37. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    Whatever,

    Sporting a fanny pack and making it look good is the ultimate test of self-confidence.
    QFT. I too consider the fanny pack to be the ultimate test of self-confidence. You will never see someone proudly rocking a fanny pack without shame while having self-confidence issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seth View Post
    My point here is that sexuality isn't really something that comes about at that age. It is rather the parent being a good parent and trying to protect their kid from ridicule, something that I think any parent would want to do to the best of their ability. It is important to let one's child explore sexuality and be themselves, but to say a parent is preventing their kid from being his/herself simply because they won't let him/her wear a dress is ludicrous. Sexuality isn't something that starts to manifest until you hit puberty, and I don't think that saying no to wearing woman's clothes is something a child will distinctly remember later on in life. Heck, the only reason I know that I remember I wanted to do ballet as a kid was because my parents decided to bring up during one of those "embarrass the kids as much as possible" conversations.
    QFT. The actual act of not permitting your son to wear dresses in public is not something that will f-up their mind, it's society or your family/loved-ones treating you like you are an abomination that will f-up a mind, and this is true for all stages of brain development. The younger you are the less likely you are to possess proper tools to deal with situations and experiences that can potentially shape and impact your life and personality.
    Excuse me for disagreeing that your degeneracy is sacred.

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erbal View Post
    QFT. The actual act of not permitting your son to wear dresses in public is not something that will f-up their mind, it's society or your family/loved-ones treating you like you are an abomination that will f-up a mind, and this is true for all stages of brain development. The younger you are the less likely you are to possess proper tools to deal with situations and experiences that can potentially shape and impact your life and personality.
    absolutely true. If there were no societal consequences for my son to wear a dress, I would totally let him do it. But in today's society with all its snap judgements, wearing a dress in public is something not worth the risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by alliegirl View Post
    (Unlike the name "gerbilownage"... that just oozes masculine sex appeal aimed at attracting women.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Summer View Post
    You made me bust out my book.

  39. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerbilownage View Post
    absolutely true. If there were no societal consequences for my son to wear a dress, I would totally let him do it. But in today's society with all its snap judgements, wearing a dress in public is something not worth the risk.
    ...There are societal consequences for every choice you or your child makes. If he doesn't have the latest clothing styles there's a societal consequence. If he wears glasses there's a societal consequence. Is this more extreme? Yeah it is. But don't act like you can actually protect your child from societal consequences. Even being the uber cool kid means he'll get blowback from the goth/punk crowd.

  40. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by aquias View Post
    ...There are societal consequences for every choice you or your child makes. If he doesn't have the latest clothing styles there's a societal consequence. If he wears glasses there's a societal consequence. Is this more extreme? Yeah it is. But don't act like you can actually protect your child from societal consequences. Even being the uber cool kid means he'll get blowback from the goth/punk crowd.
    It's called min-maxing!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Chak View Post
    Let me tell you, used tranny fluid tastes nasty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cora View Post
    I know I do a lot of the finger

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